Re: Back to School

I don't know -- I think the unconscious mind as conceived of by Freud was a
fairy tale, and as an entity in itself was always assumed. Heck, you even get
hints of something like this in the book of Proverbs. I think Freud deserves
credit for making it a focus of the understanding of human psychology, but it's
really unclear what use this idea has anymore, much less in psychiatric circles
-- esp. clinical ones that focus more on the brain as a electrochemical or
biochemical organ.

I've found it's usually just a good way for second rate minds to pin whatever
they want on any author they want. "Of course he wasn't aware of this...it was
SUBCONSCIOUS."

Ugh :).

Interesting distinction there between HS teachers and college profs in
Salinger...that's useful. I wonder if it's consistent? I think it is...

It should be pointed out that Salinger doesn't ever really depict a full blown
college prof (to my knowledge), but a section man -- a grad student teaching lit
courses.

Jim

Aaron Sommers wrote:

> Actually in S:AI, Buddy does admit that Freud reached the level of poetry.
> And that is some compliment coming from him. Surely anyone who recognizes
> the unconscious, nevermind mentioning sex to the point where it still makes
> people shiver today, deserves credit. Nonetheless, my opinion is his best
> readings come from his case studies, like Dora and the Wolf Man, and his
> worst stuff comes later when he's too cynical like in Totem and Taboo. Jung
> was smart to break from himm when he did...
>
> Also, to say that S refuses to be nailed down is the understatement of the
> century! Just take into account my theory: that Salinger has a respect for
> most High school English teachers, because they are people who are not in a
> "publish or perish" environment like college english professors. Morevover,
> they don't "knock" famous writers instead they inspire students to read more
> of them through legitimate exploration. College instructers, he might
> beleive, care too much about their own reputation in academia, and are all
> trying to be "hotshots" by riding on the coatails of the greats. Take an
> English teacher like the one in THE CATCHER IN THE RYE, he implored D.B. not
> to go to Hollywood and "sell-out". It is as though Salinger respects the
> modest high school teacher's integrity, one that hasn't been corrupted by an
> ivory tower...
>
> Aaron
>
> >From: Jim Rovira <jrovira@drew.edu>
> >Reply-To: bananafish@roughdraft.org
> >To: bananafish@roughdraft.org
> >Subject: Re: Back to School
> >Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 22:07:17 -0400
> >
> >heh...I'd forgotten about that episode :). So he expressed ambivalence
> >about
> >psychoanalysis too :).
> >
> >Maybe he just doesn't like being nailed down.
> >
> >On some levels I think the same way he does about psychoanalysis. I think
> >Freud
> >wrote fairy tales and called them science and that annoys me to no end (I'm
> >reading _Beyond the Pleasure Principle_ right now), but at the same time,
> >they
> >were very compelling and influential fairy tales that have defined the way
> >we
> >think about a great many things...and sometimes I find his observations or
> >categories useful.
> >
> >Jim
> >
> >Aaron Sommers wrote:
> >
> > > Jim,
> > > Your right, it seems Salinger likely hated psychoanalysis as much, if
> >not
> > > more, than literary critics. Yet there's even more ambivalence when you
> >read
> > > in The Catcher in the Rye the part where Holden calls on Carl Luce the
> > > "smartest boy " he knew, and listens to him give a quick lesson on
> >analysis.
> > > Something about "patterns of our minds" and Holden considers therapy, if
> >I
> > > am not mistaken. Imagine one of Salinger's most precious characters
> > > voluntarily on the couch asking what his/her dreams meant! Not likely...
> > >
> > > aaron
> > > >From: Jim Rovira <jrovira@drew.edu>
> > > >Reply-To: bananafish@roughdraft.org
> > > >To: bananafish@roughdraft.org
> > > >Subject: Re: Back to School
> > > >Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 18:47:12 -0400
> > > >
> > > >Yeah, there's some real ambivalence there...good observations. It's
> >hard
> > > >to say
> > > >where it comes from. An outsider's resentment? Annoyed by criticism
> >but
> > > >too
> > > >big a reader himself? Seems like there was one line in Raise High or
> >S:AI
> > > >about
> > > >the real problem with lit studies being its dependence upon
> >psychoanalysis,
> > > >psychanalysis being the only thing Salinger hated as much at literary
> > > >critics...
> > > >
> > > >Jim
> > > >
> > > >Aaron Sommers wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > One of the most interesting aspects of Salinger's works is when the
> > > >subject
> > > > > of education is broached. There is the obvious contempt for the
> > > >"parasitic"
> > > > > Lane Coutell's, who want praise for being a lit. critic and are
> > > >candidates
> > > > > for future section men in various English Departments. Then there is
> > > > > Nicholson and the specialized educators (Lidekker group), who like
> >to
> > > >study
> > > > > people like Teddy and Zooey, trying to map a blueprint of how the
> >gears
> > > >in
> > > > > them turn. But just when I believe that Salinger is moving in a
> > > >direction
> > > > > that suggests children should teach themselves, that English
> >professors
> > > >are
> > > > > leeches, and that English depratments are useless because you "can't
> > > >keep a
> > > > > born scholar ignorant" anyway, I realize the author's "alter-ego"
> > > >teaches
> > > > > "Advanced Writing 24-A". And how many members of his all girl
> > > >composition
> > > > > class will turn into Mrs. Fedder's, do you think? Moreover, Seymour
> >was
> > > >the
> > > > > first to choose his profession as an English Professor, at any Ivy
> > > >League
> > > > > school, no less. But he had certainly been a mentor within the
> >family
> > > >long
> > > > > before that official appointment at age 18. Also, Mr. Antolini was
> >the
> > > >only
> > > > > person Holden respected from school. So does anyone else notice
> >while
> > > > > Salinger derives pleasure in bad-mouthing aspects of education, he
> >still
> > > >has
> > > > > respect for the teaching profession?
> > > > >
> > > > > -Aaron
> > > > >
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