Oh wait...it's coming back to me. It had to do with the presence of politics in everything.  Daniel seemed to assert that some truths were apolitical, or transcendent, and John O. asserted that Daniel was living in a world different from his, where everything had political implications.

What I suggested was that both were true.  The totality includes the transcendent and the political, both coexist at all times in the same objects, and to deny one or the other is to make a mistake.

John O's assertions below are neither here nor there -- we see things we want to see that aren't there, and don't see things we don't want to see that are there.  Predisposition works both ways, so ultimately can't be used as an arbitur in these kinds of questions.

The chemical thing, well, I've read Huxley's book exploring the use of drugs and his attempt to describe religious experience in those terms, and honestly it read something like a description of heterosexual sex by someone who's never done anything but masturbated.

There are layers of experience that are lost or simply mistaken for an equivalent sensation.

C.S. Lewis wrote a very nice essay about this phenomena and various interpretations of it called "Transposition."

Luke -- so after saying all this, it's not that we can opt out of Omlor's world if we want to.  We can't.  We're just ignoring the things he brings to the surface if we do, just as he ignores what you bring to the surface, judging it irrelevant.

Now, what I meant to say was that Franny's ideals were represented in "Christ," who isn't to be distinguished from the Fat Ladies of the world.  The Eastern view of this teaching is that there's no ontological difference between the Fat Lady and Christ, while the Christian view is that Christ lovingly identifies Himself with "the least of these," so if we want to love Him we need to love the Fat Ladies.

So far as Franny was concerned, though -- in relationship to her personal issue -- this is all one and the same.  When she does it (acting, in her case) for the Fat Lady, she does it for Christ.  The important thing, though, is that she can do it without selling out her ideals by seeing it as service to her ideals.

Jim

Omlor@aol.com wrote:

Luke wishes:

"So we don't live in Omlor's world, after all, if we don't want to."

Yes, we do.

Some of us just think we see things.  Or want to so badly that we convince ourselves we do.

Incidentally, the right chemicals produce a similar effect.

--John (sans Spirit... except the pourable sort)

PS: But he wasn't "in one."  Those were computer generated graphics and guys in Latex....