Re: The Winter ducks and the Wild geese.

Camille Scaysbrook (verona_beach@geocities.com)
Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:34:24 +1000 

Excellent spotting Brad! This is just the sort of thing I will call on you
to use if ever I get the scholarship to do a thesis on Salinger and Zen.

I attempted to start a discussion of Holden's sexuality a little while
back, but it generated less interest than I expected. It had been something
I'd been wondering about for a long time. I'd definitley be interested in
starting it off again. It's interesting how people are so eager to attach a
sexual meaning to everything in this post Freudian age, isn't it? (for
example: `Franny was pregnant, wasn't she?') I wonder if Muriel and Seymour
made love before they were married?

Camille 
verona_beach@geocities.com
@ THE ARTS HOLE
www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Theater/6442
THE INVERTED FOREST
www.angelfire.com/pa/invertedforest

> .....'Well, you know the ducks that swim around in it? In the springtime
> and all? Do you happen to know where they go in the wintertime by any
> chance?'
> 'Where who goes?'
> 'The ducks.....
> 
> .....'How the hell should I know?' he said. 'How the hell should I know
> a stupid thing like that?'.....
> 
> .....'Well, don't get sore about it,' I said. He was sore about it or
> something......
> 
> .....'The fish don't go no place. They stay right where they are, the
> fish. Right in the goddam lake.'.....
> 
> ...That's their nature for Chrissake –what'sa matter with ya? .... See
> what I mean?'.....
> 
> ....'Listen,' he said. 'If you was a fish, Mother Nature'd take care of
> you, wouldn't she? Right? You don't think them fish just die when it
> gets to winter, do ya?'....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One one occassion Ma-Tsu and Po-Chang were out for a walk, when they saw
> some wild geese flying past.
> 'What are they?' asked Ma-tsu.
> 'They're wild geese,' said Po-chang.
> 'Where are they going?' demanded Mat-su.
> Po-chang replied, 'They've already flown away.'
> Suddenly Ma-tsu grabbed Po-chang by the nose and twisted it so that he
> cried out in pain.
> 'How,' shouted Ma-tsu, 'could they ever have flown away?'
> This was the moment of Po-chang's awakening (Pi-yen Chi).
> 
> 
> pg 142, The Way of Zen, Alan W. Watts
> ISBN 0-14-019255-7
> 
> 
> 
> I'd very much like to read further discussions about the sex issue with
> relation to Zen and Holden and Franny, etc. I also found this at the
> radiohead website (www.radiohead.com), and it reminded me of what Holden
> has said: