This is the text of a Salinger chat we had in an AOL chat room 8/28/98. We had a good time, talked about Catcher and A Perfect Day for Bananafish, got to know each other and teased each other incessantly. This will be in two parts. --Jim :) OnlineHost: SadIdLady: hey Jim AntiUtopia: Woah, I was slow coming in :) Sorry guys :) We have a nice crowd tonight :) I stepped into another chat briefly... StupiesCuz: Hi everyone SadIdLady: Nic's out planning a friend's bachelor party, so he won't make it AntiUtopia: tell him we missed him :) Too bad he's missing on all the fun here :) heh :) SadIdLady: hello Astro.. didn't i just see you in ccino? AstroMan60: yep SadIdLady: thought so AntiUtopia: maybe a name check would be good right now so we can all know each other :) StupiesCuz: I saw you somewhere else, too, Astro... Oh, the Anne Rice group, no? AntiUtopia: I'm Jim SadIdLady: Trish AstroMan60: yep Anne Rice groupie here. hola Jim, Trish AntiUtopia: hola :) StupiesCuz: I'm cuz :) AntiUtopia: heh. Okay, Cuz :) AstroMan60: hi Cuz StupiesCuz: But actually our names us Bob and Dave, we are split personalities of Jake. AstroMan60: ok AntiUtopia: heh :) so which one is out tonight? :) StupiesCuz: A Perfect Day For Bananafish is my favourite story from "Nine Stories" SadIdLady: okay AntiUtopia: Cool :) Yeah, I like that one mucho :) Slello Slorra :) SLorra0407: hi :) StupiesCuz: They are in a constant battle to say something, Jim. Hi Lorra! SadIdLady: hi SLorra AntiUtopia: Oh, before we get into Nine Stories, did anyone have anything left to say about Catcher? SadIdLady: and hello Jedi.. sorry SLorra0407: hi y'all :) AstroMan60: i don't have nine stories yet 8*-( i'm getting it on monday tho JediMars: hi AntiUtopia: yeah, Hi Jedi :) StupiesCuz: Jedi, I've seen you somewhere else, too.. SLorra0407: gee, they don't have anything else to say about CITR, Jim :( JediMars: where? StupiesCuz: How mean of us. AntiUtopia: Oh, give em a minute, we're still getting to know each other :) StupiesCuz: Well, us three just don't want to say anything SLorra0407: ok :) AstroMan60: i loved Catcher, one of the best non Anne Rice books i read this year AntiUtopia: Oh Lord :) SadIdLady: lol Astro SLorra0407: er, it's certainly different from Anne Rice StupiesCuz: Actually, I think the Catcher is one of the most overanalyzed books in history and that rips apart the meaning. AntiUtopia: I have this theory...Anne Rice is Salinger in Drag. AstroMan60: LOL SLorra0407: why do you think so, stupies? AntiUtopia: I think Salinger would agree. SadIdLady: have mercy SLorra0407: geesh, Jim! SadIdLady: I think Salinger would agree too AntiUtopia: ever see em both in the same room? StupiesCuz: I think Salinger would agree, too, Jim, he was known to have women's shoes in his closet. AntiUtopia: there ya go :) SLorra0407: I don't even have a picture of Salinger AntiUtopia: well, NOW you do :) SLorra0407: it was a shoe thing, not a rice thing! AntiUtopia: OKAY, now, how do we approach Catcher without ANALyzing it to death? StupiesCuz: It's always about the shoes.. AntiUtopia: Yeah, women and their shoes... SadIdLady: hmm, the Salinger as Anne Rice theory.. slightly resembles the Bronte theory StupiesCuz: Well, Jim, you can analyze it, but not into the ground, like almost everyone has. SLorra0407: Seriously, though, Stupes, why do you think it's overanalyzed? I do think it's a fairly StupiesCuz: Well.. because I have heard so many opinions about it, people finding meanins and symbolism AntiUtopia: Hello September. We're discussing Catcher :) SadIdLady: hey Sept AstroMan60: Sept I like your SN SLorra0407: simple book and definantly applicable today's adolescents, but - and I've not read any StupiesCuz: in it.. pushing it into the ground AntiUtopia: yeah, cool :) The man's a date :) Sept 26 45: Hi Stupies....I'm the gal who bothered u last night SLorra0407: scriticism, but... StupiesCuz: Oh, hey Sept. :) SLorra0407: hi Sept :) Sept 26 45: Hi AntiUtopia: oops. the Gal's a date :) AntiUtopia: you always have a date. ha ha. StupiesCuz: Whose date? My date? No, not yours, mine! AntiUtopia: Salinger dedicated one of his books to any "amateur readers left in the world" StupiesCuz: Unlike today's date. SLorra0407: which one? AstroMan60: which one? AntiUtopia: which I take to mean he was sick of overanalyzation himself. StupiesCuz: Yes, which one? AntiUtopia: eh...lemme check... StupiesCuz: I've heard of that, I think.. AntiUtopia: Yeah, it's either F and Z or Seymour SLorra0407: Stupes, if that's the case, then I can see where you might think it's overanalyzed. Seems JediMars: raise high the roof beam carpenters AntiUtopia: brb JediMars: i think StupiesCuz: Ah, the disrespectful humans, analyzing his books against his will! How darest we! SLorra0407: like a pretty straight forward illustration to me. I was surprised when Jim told me when he SLorra0407: had written it AstroMan60: <~~not human StupiesCuz: It's gonna be okay, Astro. AntiUtopia: right, that's it Jedi AstroMan60: an't put the blame of overanilization on me AstroMan60: an't = can't AntiUtopia: Yeah, Yeah, I agree with the sentiments, Cuz StupiesCuz: I loved Raise High the Roof Beam, Carpenters... SLorra0407: me either, Astro :) AntiUtopia: eh, how about we talk about ONE book :) StupiesCuz: We are.. one at a time SadIdLady: :) AstroMan60: one Book? Ha impossible Sept 26 45: so does anyone what really happened between Seymour and the tree? AntiUtopia: Ok, Catcher is overanalyzed. Saligner thinks his work has been overanalyzed AntiUtopia: had a great love affair and raised little saplings. AntiUtopia: So, what about Catcher? StupiesCuz: <laughs> StupiesCuz: Aaaanyway.. AntiUtopia: if we aren't supposed to overanalyze it, what then? SadIdLady: maybe just read and enjoy StupiesCuz: Simply analyze, interpret, precept.. not push into the ground by making every high school student read it AntiUtopia: Seriously, I think Seymour had suicidal thoughts and maybe thought of driving into a tree. AntiUtopia: Not sure. StupiesCuz: and explain it to them, etc AstroMan60: <had to overanalyze it (read it for school) Sept 26 45: can't just enjoy it if a professor wants a 10 page essay written AntiUtopia: there ya go. SLorra0407: I tend to think every high school student could gain a lot by reading it AntiUtopia: I can see all that. StupiesCuz: Jim, nice idea, but would he drive into a tree with Muriel with him? SadIdLady: high school students are the best people to read Catcher AstroMan60: They Made Me do It!!! SLorra0407: and THEY are unlikely to overanalyze it AntiUtopia: Maybe just read it, identify with Holden, AntiUtopia: Nah, he wouldn't :) SLorra0407: geesh, 10 pp! StupiesCuz: SLorra... Most high school students I know hate it.. and only realize they like it later on Sept 26 45: ya..ridiculous StupiesCuz: And then not many AstroMan60: What the heck was Holden's problem anyway? StupiesCuz: Their loss =) AntiUtopia: maybe know that someone else out there feels the way they do. SadIdLady: I loved it in high school.. but I'm old SLorra0407: It would be easy to do 10 pp, but that is overanalyzing it AntiUtopia: TOTAL disillusionment with everyone. Sept 26 45: 10 pages on bananafish..not catcher AntiUtopia: I would say that was Holden's problem. AstroMan60: Sad no such thing as old, just experienced SLorra0407: Stupes, I felt like Holden had a perspective of the world that many teens have - everyone is SLorra0407: a fake and living a lie. AntiUtopia: yeah. His internal commentary on everyone was pretty negative. SLorra0407: I'm not so sure he isn't right, and I'm a ways from high school SadIdLady: total disillusionment with himself StupiesCuz: SLorra... teens don't often like to see their feelings written out..perhaps thats why they StupiesCuz: do not appreciate it AntiUtopia: except for Phoebe (his sun) and Allie AstroMan60: SL i don't have that perspectivve on the world and i'm 16 SLorra0407: but Phoebe and Allie were real, not living the adult lies AntiUtopia: good point Astro. StupiesCuz: Allie was sort of dead, SLorra.. SLorra0407: sorry, Jim, I told you I'd be crashing your chat :) AntiUtopia: sort of, but not in a Zen way :) AntiUtopia: crash, crash :) StupiesCuz: Dead in a Zen way? AntiUtopia: what is the sound of one corpse clapping? :) SadIdLady: dead in a cemetery way AntiUtopia: ANYWAYS, he did have problems with everyone... SLorra0407: Allie was dead, true, but he'd lived "real" and I think that was Holden's problem SLorra0407: You're right, astro, maybe most teens don't view the world that way. I didn't, but do now AntiUtopia: and I wouldn't say ALL teens have that problem, but some do, at least. SLorra0407: :) AntiUtopia: so we have someone that's regressing :) StupiesCuz: the entire book was about Holden trying to grow up.. ovbiously Allie reminded him of childhood as did Phoebe AntiUtopia: hmmm.... AstroMan60: i have a problem with negative people AntiUtopia: that's interesting Cuz. AntiUtopia: real negative about em. AstroMan60: i thought it was about Holden not growing up StupiesCuz: Ack, ack, spelling typos! SLorra0407: hmmm..... NO, I think the whole book was about Holden learning to deal with accepted behaviors AntiUtopia: right. Well, what was he gonna do? StupiesCuz: Astro, my key word was *trying* AntiUtopia: he wanted to run off into the woods. AstroMan60: ahh AntiUtopia: abandon all human society, even family, for all purposes. SLorra0407: and live "real"--was that such a bad thing? Unrealistic, yes, but better men than the character Holden have had the same idea AstroMan60: i want to live in the woods StupiesCuz: This two line AOL limit is really obnoxious. AntiUtopia: right. He wanted to get away from everyone because everyone was so Fake. StupiesCuz: Some of us live in the woods. AntiUtopia: it's about frustrated idealism, inability to accept the world as it is, StupiesCuz: but he didn't think *everyone* was fake.. not the nuns.. AntiUtopia: loneliness and isolation. SLorra0407: I live in a cotton field - but that dosen't make the people around anymore real AntiUtopia: true. Probably just Most people. SLorra0407: Phoebe and Allie were interesting characters in the book because they AntiUtopia: you live IN a cotton field? SLorra0407: painted what was real, what Holden wanted to hold onto AntiUtopia: must be awful prickly :) StupiesCuz: lol.. SLorra0407: Well, close :) AntiUtopia: heh :) AstroMan60: What did Holden want to hold on to? StupiesCuz: His childhood, Astro.. AntiUtopia: Good question... AntiUtopia: hmmm... SLorra0407: not childhood, he wanted to hold onto genuineness, innocence, truth AstroMan60: it goes deeper than that tho. . . (i think) AntiUtopia: he was pretty adolescent too, though. StupiesCuz: he started the book by talking about his childhood and often brought allie and phoebe up SLorra0407: I don't know how to really define it... I don't think he did AstroMan60: BRB StupiesCuz: Innocence=childhood AntiUtopia: Teenager with lots of cash on his own. What did he do? Drink all he could and try to get laid. That much is predictable. StupiesCuz: Why predictable? SLorra0407: hmmm... but with the cynical understanding of what the adult world was like and dangers involved in demanding it AntiUtopia: eh, cause I ACTED that way :) StupiesCuz: I think drinking and trying to get laid (which he didn't really) was the opposite of him wanting to be a kid again. SadIdLady: yeah, that's a given StupiesCuz: or still AntiUtopia: right, that's why I pointed that out. AntiUtopia: he wasn't Mr. Innocence either. StupiesCuz: His uhm... contradicting qualities or something. SLorra0407: but he was even disgusted with that behavior - he just didn't know what to do with AstroMan60: Jim are you saying any Teen with money would get drunk and try to get laid? StupiesCuz: Is anyone here an English major? <grin> SLorra0407: himself when he did have time. freedom to do what he wanted AstroMan60: <~~would like to be AntiUtopia: Most of the ones I have known would. The Males, that is. AntiUtopia: ALL my friends in HS were just like that. SadIdLady: pretty much Astro.. unless teenage boys have changed a lot SLorra0407: NONE of my friends in HS were like that :D AstroMan60: <~~is male and does not want that. . .i am against drinking and smoking for that matter StupiesCuz: Astro, it's somewhat of a stereotype.. AntiUtopia: eh, I'm an ENGLISH Major, I'm afraid :) AntiUtopia: good Astro. You are the exception. SLorra0407: everyone throw stones LOL! AntiUtopia: I knew people like you in HS too. StupiesCuz: Are you really? <takes two steps back> AstroMan60: i love being the exception SLorra0407: Actually, Astro, I suspect you aren't the exception :) AntiUtopia: but they were rare. SadIdLady: very rare AntiUtopia: not in my area, that is all. SadIdLady: very, very rare AntiUtopia: out of ten friends I had, maybe one fit that category. AstroMan60: yes i am, i dumped my last g/f when i found out she had been drinking one night StupiesCuz: I don't have any male friends that drink and smoke, in fact none do.. SadIdLady: good for you, Astro (the mother in me speaking) StupiesCuz: Hmm.. AntiUtopia: the book, the book! :) StupiesCuz: Does anyone find anything in common between Seymour and Salinger himself? AstroMan60: what book what book? SLorra0407: I would argue where I went to HS, only about 10% actually wanted that AntiUtopia: HA AntiUtopia: good Slorra. AntiUtopia: THE BOOK. StupiesCuz: *the* book? oooo... SLorra0407: yes sir <saluting> LOL AntiUtopia: heh :) AstroMan60: Which Book? do you have any idea how many books there are in this world of yours? SLorra0407: good, astro, very good :D AntiUtopia: ANYWAYS :) Hard for me to compare Seymour with salinger without knowing Sal... StupiesCuz: He's an English major, sheesh.. Astro.. AntiUtopia: I've died and gone to hell... AntiUtopia: :) SLorra0407: Tell me about Seymour? SadIdLady: LOL StupiesCuz: Well.. AstroMan60: MWA HA HA HA!!! AntiUtopia: Alright, since we're talking Seymour, let's talk Nine Stories. AntiUtopia: A Perfect day for Bananafish. StupiesCuz: Seymour even sounds like Salinger.. both begin and end with the same letters AntiUtopia: BTW, This is turning out to be a great chat :) SLorra0407: oh dear, let's not get quite that simple AntiUtopia: Very Punny :) SadIdLady: have mercy AstroMan60: Have not Read Nine Stories SLorra0407: me either StupiesCuz: Did anyone catch that when Seymour said "They got banana fever and died".. he was sort of projecting AntiUtopia: Ok, in A Perfect Day for Bananafish, Seymour is on his honeymoon AntiUtopia: right, Cuz :) AntiUtopia: and at the end of the story puts a bullet in his head. SLorra0407: eeewww. .. why? StupiesCuz: And the feet comment hadn't much to do with the bullet AntiUtopia: This is a big deal, because Seymour was the spiritual head of the family StupiesCuz: SL, you didn't know? AntiUtopia: That is the question, Sheridan :) AntiUtopia: why? SLorra0407: sorry, I haven't gotten to this book yet AstroMan60: nor have i AstroMan60: BRB Sept 26 45: what is all your people's take on the incident in the elavator? StupiesCuz: Oh.. we just ruined the ending for you.. AntiUtopia: It's a very important even because it effected the whole family, and all other AntiUtopia: glass stories make reference to it somehow, pretty much SLorra0407: no, it's okay. It won't ruin it, just make me want to crash your chat and put y'all behind JediMars: doesn't he kill himself because he's too happy? SLorra0407: next time :) AntiUtopia: ugh, EVENT, because.. StupiesCuz: hehe, SL AntiUtopia: right, that's what Buddy thought, Jedi. AstroMan60: Too happy? HMMMMm no such thing StupiesCuz: I don't think that's true.. AntiUtopia: in the story, the bananafish eat too many bananas and die StupiesCuz: When Seymour made that comment about Muriel "could be any one of a thousand places" he seemed not to know or care where she was AntiUtopia: and Seymour is wearing a YELLOW robe StupiesCuz: Oh, Jim, that's so relevant.. Sept 26 45: it's yellow? AntiUtopia: right, it seemed like he was avoiding Muriel. AntiUtopia: yep SLorra0407: hmmmm, sounds like a story begging to be analyzed AntiUtopia: he was a big banana:) StupiesCuz: I'd hate to die in a yellow robe. SadIdLady: lol Cuz AntiUtopia: I'm afraid that's happening. And the play on his name AntiUtopia: See More Glass. AntiUtopia: that's what the kid said. StupiesCuz: Oooh, wait, that is relevant, I hadn't noticed JediMars: i thought he was the bananafish AstroMan60: <~~hate to be caught wearing Banana yellow AntiUtopia: right. That's what I think. Sept 26 45: so why did he snip at the lady in the elevator...? StupiesCuz: Hmm... AntiUtopia: he was acting like a child, trying to deal with her on that level AntiUtopia: that's what I thought. StupiesCuz: Yes, like he had with Sybil.. AntiUtopia: it was like the teasing he did with the girl on the beach AntiUtopia: right, the young girl. StupiesCuz: Did anyone find that Sybil and Muriel had very parallel lives? Sept 26 45: but what is his fascination with feet? AntiUtopia: hmmm... AntiUtopia: he kissed Sybil on the foot... Sept 26 45: and grabbed her ankles StupiesCuz: For example.. both spoke of fathers who never appeared, not talked about suburn and AntiUtopia: said the lady that walked into the elevator was looking at his feet. StupiesCuz: sun lotion as well as the piano.. (one being jealous the other seeing him play) AntiUtopia: hmmm.... AntiUtopia: that's interesting, never noticed that... StupiesCuz: not? uhm... forget that not in front of talked about sunburn StupiesCuz: Also.. AstroMan60: SL are you confusd? StupiesCuz: Seymour is the only man in the story who actually appears... AntiUtopia: yeah... AntiUtopia: that's true too. StupiesCuz: Even the elevator person was a female, which in Salinger's times was unusual SLorra0407: not too bad. I just wish I'd read the book. It sounds fascinating and VERY different from SLorra0407: Catcher AntiUtopia: you're right :) AntiUtopia: it is VERY different. TOTALLY different. AntiUtopia: Mabye some Glass family background would be appropriate? StupiesCuz: it is, SL.. most people read Catcher and some are disappointed with it and don't give 9 Stories a try Sept 26 45: so what's with the feet...does he have a fetish? AntiUtopia: Seymour is the oldest child, the next oldest was Buddy AntiUtopia: I have to think about that a bit, I don't know what the feet may mean. StupiesCuz: Then there is Boo Boo StupiesCuz: and Franny and Zooey AntiUtopia: Buddy was an author and "wrote" the stories about Seymour AntiUtopia: and Walt is older than F and Z JediMars: and Waker StupiesCuz: Right, there is Walt too.. StupiesCuz: And Waker.. AntiUtopia: Yeah, Waker and Walt were twins, right? Sept 26 45: Why does Seymour think Sybil's bathing suit is blue? JediMars: yup StupiesCuz: G-m bazillion kids they had SLorra0407: geesh, talk about a lot of kids! AntiUtopia: yep :) AntiUtopia: all very intelligent, AstroMan60: AHHHH to many kids AntiUtopia: all on the radio. StupiesCuz: Walt and Waker went almost unmentioned AntiUtopia: I think Seymour was just teasing Sybil about the color of her suit. StupiesCuz: They make me think of Disney and Texas AntiUtopia: Yeah, they aren't developed as much. AntiUtopia: heh :) StupiesCuz: What was the real colour of it? AstroMan60: i'm going to have to read it now to get my mind organized AntiUtopia: eh....lemme check... JediMars: yellow Sept 26 45: do u think he said that so she would move closer to him to see the suit? StupiesCuz: Oh it was yellow... <just read AntiUtopia: yep AntiUtopia: canary yellow. StupiesCuz: I think that perhaps he wanted to deny that it was yellow? AntiUtopia: like a bananafish :) AntiUtopia: or a banana AntiUtopia: I think he was just teashing her :) AntiUtopia: now I have a lihsp :) StupiesCuz: Right.. StupiesCuz: <nod> SLorra0407: :) Sept 26 45: a lithsp? AntiUtopia: yaf. a lihsp. StupiesCuz: That's an interesting todbit.. AntiUtopia: right. There's a lot going on in this story... StupiesCuz: tidbit too.. ergh AntiUtopia: but it seems hard to come up with definite answers :) Sept 26 45: the colors mean somethin..the feet mean somethin..the tree means sumthin....sheeeesh AntiUtopia: none of us can type, that's ok :) StupiesCuz: Glass is almost an anagram of Salinger AntiUtopia: right, and we can't say for sure what any of it means. StupiesCuz: I fit right in <grin> SLorra0407: all spelling error are the fault of aol and should not be corrected by chat members AntiUtopia: haw haw :) SLorra0407: I remember reading that in the new TOS rules ;D AntiUtopia: Shure slorrit AntiUtopia: heh :) SLorra0407: If you call me slaw, I'm giving you a knuckle sandwich! StupiesCuz: Ooh, how obnoxious when your boss IMs you when you are talking about good old Salinger. Sept 26 45: i think Seymour had tried to drive around the tree so he would disappear like the tigers did AntiUtopia: Ok, anyways, Seymour and Buddy made all their younger siblings read voraciously, AntiUtopia: and read heavily--eastern philosophy, etc. AntiUtopia: and Seymour was the most looked up to. AntiUtopia: when he killed himself, that left everyone flat, wondering What the heck was going on StupiesCuz: Zooey wasn't too fond of it, was he? AstroMan60: Voraciously? Jim please use smaller words remember school has not started yet my mind is out of order SLorra0407: voraciously is a FUN word though AntiUtopia: Yeah, I think the younger siblings resented all that pushing on some level. StupiesCuz: You can make wicked anagrams out of it <grin> AntiUtopia: heh :) Sorry astro. Ruh roah :) SLorra0407: lol, Cuz! AntiUtopia: haw haw. StupiesCuz: And all the glass siblings were on a radio show... AntiUtopia: right, It's a Wonderful Child or something like that. AntiUtopia: Child prodigys JediMars: wise child:) AntiUtopia: Zooey and Franny were actors, as was Mom. AntiUtopia: there ya go, It's a Wise Child :) StupiesCuz: Yeah... AntiUtopia: thanks Jedi :) JediMars: sure:) AntiUtopia: That's a big deal too. Children seem to be elevated in Salinger's works, Sept 26 45: i'm lost...was the glass family fictional? StupiesCuz: The kids never called their parents "mom" and "dad" too.. AstroMan60: I live in an anti utopia (oops sorry for getting off track) AntiUtopia: yep, but the way Salinger handled them you'd think they weren't :) StupiesCuz: Yes Sept. Salinger's main work was creating and evolving the Glass family AntiUtopia: he definitely crosses some lines :) Sept 26 45: does Salinger have any siblings? AntiUtopia: I don't know :) JediMars: a sister i think StupiesCuz: <is Salinger's sibling StupiesCuz: :) Sept 26 45: where does he live today? SLorra0407: lol cuz! Are you really sure you wann be? AntiUtopia: somewhere in NY AstroMan60: don't live a lie Holden will hate you ;-) AntiUtopia: upstate, I think. StupiesCuz: he's a recluse in New Hampshire I think.. AntiUtopia: yeah, he is definitely a recluse JediMars: i thought cornish, new hampshire AntiUtopia: that's right. AntiUtopia: JEEZ thank God for Jedi :) Sept 26 45: has he changed his name..or what?...he may be in here right now!! AntiUtopia: SOMEONE has to know the details :) JediMars: :) StupiesCuz: Sure Jim... NY, NH.. same darn thing AntiUtopia: I vote for Jedi :) AntiUtopia: to me it is :) AntiUtopia: heh :) SLorra0407: er, not at all, cuz AstroMan60: Jedi are you by chance Salinger in disguise? SLorra0407: VERY different AntiUtopia: hmmm...nope, she's too nice :) StupiesCuz: SL, don't have to tell me, I live in NY. JediMars: nope:) StupiesCuz: Jedi, are you female? AstroMan60: are you sure check one more time StupiesCuz: Because if you are.. JediMars: yeah StupiesCuz: it would explain the whole Salinger drag thing we talked about earlier.. AntiUtopia: Alright, then, why did Seymour kill himself? AntiUtopia: OH GAWD CUZ :) StupiesCuz: hehe :) AntiUtopia: So Jedi is Anne Rice :) Sept 26 45: the war screwed him up SLorra0407: lol! your words come back to haunt you AntiUtopia: happens all the time :) AntiUtopia: OH, one question guys, can I send this chat as an e-mail to the AntiUtopia: JD Salinger listserve? AstroMan60: i don't care AntiUtopia: does anyone mind? StupiesCuz: Give us a minute to consider considering, please, Jim. AntiUtopia: ok :) AntiUtopia: I do post all our chats to the boards :) StupiesCuz: Hmm.. I often think of Salinger as expressing himself through Seymour. AntiUtopia: send them to Congress. AntiUtopia: Publish them in the New York Times. AntiUtopia: but other than that... StupiesCuz: Congress! Whoo.. hit the big time. Sept 26 45: salinger expresses himself in all his work SLorra0407: great, next we'll all be asked to do dna testing SLorra0407: Jim are you sure you can stand up to that? AntiUtopia: Right, that's the thing. A lot of people identify Salinger with Buddy, StupiesCuz: That's true, Sept, but more so, it seems, through Seymour. AntiUtopia: cause Buddy's an author. JediMars: buddy and salinger have a lot in common Sept 26 45: holden is definetly salinger AntiUtopia: eh....I don't have DNA, Sheridan :) StupiesCuz: How do you know, Sept? SLorra0407: I knew it! You aren't human! Sept 26 45: well..definetly in my mind AntiUtopia: hehehehehehhhhh :) AntiUtopia: Any more ideas on Catcher or Bananafish? StupiesCuz: Why, though, Sept? Sept 26 45: because when u create a character...it's you..no matter how hard u don't want it to be.... StupiesCuz: We are idealists with ideas and idols and idioms AntiUtopia: that's true, Sept. StupiesCuz: Ah, it's only partially true.. SLorra0407: hem, can I come back and compare them at the next chat? Will y'all mind if I make you rehash it? AntiUtopia: heh, good un, Cuz. StupiesCuz: Sometimes your writing can only mean you were shaken too hard as a baby AntiUtopia: yeah--the rest of the truth is that a writer expresses himself through ALL his characters. SLorra0407: ya think, Cuz? :) StupiesCuz: Of course we mind, what do you think we gather here for, to talk about Salinger or something AntiUtopia: Mr. Antolini was critical of Holden, so that means Salinger was too. AntiUtopia: compare away, Slorra :) SLorra0407: well, since I'm behind and all. If you're going to get impatient... :) StupiesCuz: Well, I definitely agree and will defend the point that an author expresses himself through StupiesCuz: his characters, but not 100% percent AntiUtopia: Next chat, Bananafish and Uncle Wiggly in Connecticut SLorra0407: why not 100%, Cuz? StupiesCuz: Sometimes the readers pick up on the wrong things.. Sept 26 45: when Anti? SadIdLady: two weeks, right? StupiesCuz: Jim, how are we on schedule? Are we completely ruining it? AntiUtopia: two weeks from tonight, everyone here is on the mailing list :) AntiUtopia: tis right :) AntiUtopia: We are right on schedule. StupiesCuz: Why don't we do this every Friday? SLorra0407: but how the readers interpret has nothing to do with the writer's expression AntiUtopia: cause my wife would KILL me :) Sept 26 45: the reader picks up whatever his/her experiences lead him to beleive AntiUtopia: if you want to use a text to get back to the author, that's one thing. SadIdLady: cause I have Steinbeck group on the other friday StupiesCuz: SL, how you intepret, though, changes your view of the writer's expression SadIdLady: and it's hard to schedule weekly Sept 26 45: my paper is due on mon...i'll let u guys know how i do AntiUtopia: if you just want to get something out of a text, that's another. AntiUtopia: Yeah, that would be cool, Sept :) SLorra0407: true, but it has nothing to do with the author's original intent AntiUtopia: the author's original intent is always unknown, sometimes even to the author himself. Sept 26 45: sometimes the author has no intent at all AntiUtopia: right. AntiUtopia: some authors say that about their work. StupiesCuz: SL, you dont know the author's original intent.. your perception of it is the original intent AntiUtopia: In literary crit that's called the intentional fallacy SLorra0407: oh dear, I didn't mean to go there :) AntiUtopia: but that doesn't mean a text can mean anything we want it to mean :) AntiUtopia: you got that right :) StupiesCuz: Jim, the text means what you think it means.. the text does not have a particular meaning StupiesCuz: like a color can be red and nothing else.. StupiesCuz: Here I go with my analogies.. AntiUtopia: not one meaning, but a limited range of meanings. Sept 26 45: a text can mean anything we want it to mean...it was written for the authors..and the reader's enjoyment. SLorra0407: I would disagree with you, 'cuz... and please don't start the logic arguments :) AntiUtopia: so, can I take your text to mean, Sept, that every text has only one possible meaning? Sept 26 45: no..the opposite AntiUtopia: but that's how I want your text to mean :) AntiUtopia: that's how I take it :) AntiUtopia: is that accurate? AntiUtopia: can I say that truthfully> AntiUtopia: ? StupiesCuz: The wheels on a bus go round and round, round and round... AstroMan60: Ahh one point for the english major SLorra0407: you're being evil :) StupiesCuz: Jim means he is mean :) AstroMan60: Sl that is what english majors are EVIL AntiUtopia: my misinterpretation of Sept's statement was outside the range of meaning of her statement AntiUtopia: red is never yellow. SLorra0407: Oh! Thanks for clearing that up Astro Sept 26 45: you should take what u want from a text..don't let others opinions sway your interpretations AntiUtopia: uh... StupiesCuz: And thanks for clearing *that* up, Jim. StupiesCuz: We would have never known... that red... is actually never yellow. SLorra0407: Yes, but what I see as red, may be what you see as yellow. We have no way of knowing, so AntiUtopia: I'm not saying there's only ONE meaning for a piece of literature, AntiUtopia: you need to read Wittgenstien, Sheridan :) StupiesCuz: Sept, what are you, a solipsist? SLorra0407: in that sense I guess y'all are right, but the author did have an intent at some point SLorra0407: a meaning, at any rate for his story SLorra0407: It's on the list, Jim, along with everything else :) AntiUtopia: **A** meaning, or just meaning? Sept 26 45: his intent was to sell a million books AntiUtopia: heh :) AntiUtopia: there ya go Sept :0 SLorra0407: not necessarily, Sept. :) AntiUtopia: :) AstroMan60: $$$$$$$$ SadIdLady: and I need to read Dubus.. so I'm going to head out. SLorra0407: Some of us don't write for money AntiUtopia: alright, thanks for coming Trish :) AntiUtopia: this was a fun chat :) StupiesCuz: Some of us don't buy for money.. uh.. I mean.. Sept 26 45: the ones with publishers do AstroMan60: nite Trish AntiUtopia: heh :) SadIdLady: see you all later, have a nice nite :) StupiesCuz: Night Sad AntiUtopia: you too :) SLorra0407: night Trish :) SadIdLady: nite Jim, everyone AntiUtopia: keep that humor coming :) AntiUtopia: thanks :) StupiesCuz: Anyhow.. StupiesCuz: Bananafish! SLorra0407: that sounds like a fun swear word :D StupiesCuz: You goddam bananafish! StupiesCuz: hehe.. AntiUtopia: I would say texts are capable of multiple meanings, but some meanings are more valid than' AstroMan60: OHHHH BANANAFISH!!!! AntiUtopia: others AntiUtopia: some interpretations, that is. SLorra0407: sounds very satisfying. And looks satisfying too :) StupiesCuz: I think once you read a text it become subjective. SLorra0407: And that's an example of interpretation AntiUtopia: nothing like a banana on a hot summer's night :) AntiUtopia: eh... StupiesCuz: Someone else telling you what they think it means -- shouldn't mean much to you AntiUtopia: what did I just say? Sept 26 45: what is seymour ultimately trying to teach Sybil? AntiUtopia: I would say to be kind... AstroMan60: i think i'll go get a banana right now brb SLorra0407: you said you were bananas, Jim? :D AntiUtopia: not poke the dog with a stick, etc. AntiUtopia: eh... :) StupiesCuz: I think I'll go get a fish Sept 26 45: why does he tell the banafish story? AntiUtopia: there are subjective and objective elements to reading. AstroMan60: OH BANANAFISH!! were out of bananas AntiUtopia: that's a good question, Sept. StupiesCuz: I think he tells it as a joke, but also to say that some of them died Sept 26 45: i have a brown banana here SLorra0407: very good question, Sept. and keep going Jim AntiUtopia: take too much in and you drown. AntiUtopia: make a shake out of it, Sept :0 AntiUtopia: :) AstroMan60: E-mail it to me i'm hungry for a banana StupiesCuz: Split it, I say SLorra0407: oh, yes, we have no banananas. we have no bananas today :D Sept 26 45: i think it was seymours way of tellin Sybil about himself..and the war AstroMan60: SL LOL AntiUtopia: ooh, now that's good, Sept :) SLorra0407: my dad's favorite song AntiUtopia: I think we have ONE banana, Sheridan :) SLorra0407: but that dosen't fit in the song AntiUtopia: Remember the Banana Splits? Sept 26 45: there is a band out there called bananafish AstroMan60: did it suddenly get dark here or is it just me? AntiUtopia: I think everyone here is too young... AntiUtopia: sigh :) StupiesCuz: I think Seymour had an obsessive compulsive disorder with cleanness.. SLorra0407: gee, are you the old man here? AstroMan60: And he said let there be light SLorra0407: grandpa LOL AntiUtopia: Where's trish when I need her :) AstroMan60: and there wasn't AntiUtopia: eh...I'm 34. AstroMan60: hmmmm StupiesCuz: i like banana splits :0 Sept 26 45: me 2! SLorra0407: we know :) AntiUtopia: really? StupiesCuz: Well, I brought it up anyhow. AntiUtopia: so do you remember the Banana Splits on TV. :) StupiesCuz: Really what, Jim? AstroMan60: i think i need to go to the ice cream shop down the street AntiUtopia: tell me about it :0 StupiesCuz: Banana splits from Leave it to Beaver episodes AntiUtopia: really is Sept also 34? Sept 26 45: actually...my fav ice cream is Ben & Jerry's Chunky Monkey.. unky Monkey StupiesCuz: Oh.. okay.. I don't know if she is.. SLorra0407: then what does the date mean, sept? AntiUtopia: I like Cherry Garcia. Sept 26 45: banana ice cream/fudge/walnuts Sept 26 45: yummy AntiUtopia: allergic to nuts. Ironic :) StupiesCuz: I'm allergic to Jerry Garcia. AntiUtopia: and the vanilla is almost intoxicating :) AstroMan60: Jim you're allegic to me? SLorra0407: gee, then mine is boring.. I like Oreo.. Yes, it is Jim :) AntiUtopia: heh :) Sept 26 45: date of a special birth AntiUtopia: ah. AstroMan60: who's? AstroMan60: ? Sept 26 45: mum's! AstroMan60: cool AntiUtopia: cool :) very sweet. SLorra0407: aha! yeah, that is cool Sept 26 45: my late mum's... StupiesCuz: There is a conversation stopper. Sorry to hear that, Sept. :\ AntiUtopia: yep. but very nice of you to do that. StupiesCuz: It's a nice way to honour her :) AntiUtopia: very nice, yes. Sept 26 45: it's ok..it's been 2 years. StupiesCuz: <nods to Jim> <g> SLorra0407: wow, though. She was still very young. I'm sorry Sept. AntiUtopia: right, just over 40 Sept 26 45: yes...almost 51 AntiUtopia: too young. AntiUtopia: oops :) SLorra0407: well, we know he wasn't a math major :) AntiUtopia: I'm an English major. I can't add :) Sept 26 45: lol StupiesCuz: lol SL AntiUtopia: still too young, tho. AstroMan60: don't worry this ain't a math test AntiUtopia: good thing :) SLorra0407: thank goodness. I'd have run like mad StupiesCuz: Hmm... does "A perfect day for bananafish" theoretically mean.. "a perfect day to shoot yourself"? Sept 26 45: and my birthday is this monday...anniversary of Diana's death...sheesh AstroMan60: HMMMM AntiUtopia: it almost seems like it... AntiUtopia: happy Birthday Sept :) AstroMan60: Happy b-day Sept 26 45: thnx StupiesCuz: yeah, Happy birthday, Sept.. mine just passed :) SLorra0407: if the argument was that he was too happy, things were too perfect, then that would fit SLorra0407: happy birthday Sept :) AstroMan60: Happy B-day Cuz AntiUtopia: that was what Buddy said about Seymour. Sept 26 45: happy belated AntiUtopia: good observation, Sheridan. SLorra0407: and Cuz StupiesCuz: After telling Sybil about himself... Seymour tells her to watch out for the bananafish today JediMars: the perfect day is when the bananafish dies AntiUtopia: yeah.... AntiUtopia: and they die by eating too many bananas. StupiesCuz: Thanks, btw, for boithday wishies :) SLorra0407: so, ostensibly, they die happy? StupiesCuz: Good point, SL AntiUtopia: happy bd cuz :) AntiUtopia: i would think so. But isn't suicide by happiness kind of odd? AntiUtopia: Why? SLorra0407: gee, and I haven't even read the stroy :) StupiesCuz: Hmm... or maybe they overeat and are "drowned out" by bananas? SLorra0407: not necessarily, Jim AntiUtopia: PLEASE help me out here then :) It is odd to me :) StupiesCuz: Maybe he wasn't able to deal with happiness? AntiUtopia: I can understand that. AstroMan60: not odd at all AntiUtopia: And looking waaay ahead, Teddy said it's hard to be spiritual in America StupiesCuz: The bunch of us are odd, we shouldn't have trouble understanding odd things _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]