Salinger Chat, part 1

J J R (jrovira@juno.com)
Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:43:37 -0400 (EDT)

This is the text of a Salinger chat we had in an AOL chat room 8/28/98. 
We had a good time, talked about Catcher and A Perfect Day for
Bananafish, got to know each other and teased each other incessantly. 
This will be in two parts.   --Jim :)   

OnlineHost:	
SadIdLady:	hey Jim
AntiUtopia:	Woah, I was slow coming in :)  Sorry guys :)  We have
a nice crowd tonight :)  I
stepped into another chat briefly...
StupiesCuz:	Hi everyone
SadIdLady:	Nic's out planning a friend's bachelor party, so he
won't make it
AntiUtopia:	tell him we missed him :)  Too bad he's missing on all
the fun here :)  heh :)
SadIdLady:	hello Astro.. didn't i just see you in ccino?
AstroMan60:	yep
SadIdLady:	thought so
AntiUtopia:	maybe a name check would be good right now so we can
all know
each other :)
StupiesCuz:	I saw you somewhere else, too, Astro... Oh, the Anne
Rice group,
no?
AntiUtopia:	I'm Jim
SadIdLady:	Trish
AstroMan60:	yep Anne Rice groupie here.  hola Jim, Trish
AntiUtopia:	hola :)
StupiesCuz:	I'm cuz :)
AntiUtopia:	heh.  Okay, Cuz :)
AstroMan60:	hi Cuz
StupiesCuz:	But actually our names us Bob and Dave, we are split
personalities of Jake.
AstroMan60:	ok
AntiUtopia:	heh :)  so which one is out tonight? :)
StupiesCuz:	A Perfect Day For Bananafish is my favourite story
from "Nine
Stories"
SadIdLady:	okay
AntiUtopia:	Cool :)  Yeah, I like that one mucho :)  Slello Slorra
:)
SLorra0407:	hi  :)
StupiesCuz:	They are in a constant battle to say something, Jim. 
Hi Lorra!
SadIdLady:	hi SLorra
AntiUtopia:	Oh, before we get into Nine Stories, did anyone have
anything
left to say about Catcher?
SadIdLady:	and hello Jedi.. sorry
SLorra0407:	hi y'all :)
AstroMan60:	i don't have nine stories yet 8*-( i'm getting it on
monday tho
JediMars:	hi
AntiUtopia:	yeah, Hi Jedi :)
StupiesCuz:	Jedi, I've seen you somewhere else, too..
SLorra0407:	gee, they don't have anything else to say about CITR,
Jim :(
JediMars:	where?
StupiesCuz:	How mean of us.
AntiUtopia:	Oh, give em a minute, we're still getting to know each
other :)
StupiesCuz:	Well, us three just don't want to say anything
SLorra0407:	ok  :)
AstroMan60:	i loved Catcher, one of the best non Anne Rice books i
read this
year
AntiUtopia:	Oh Lord :)
SadIdLady:	lol Astro
SLorra0407:	er, it's certainly different from Anne Rice
StupiesCuz:	Actually, I think the Catcher is one of the most
overanalyzed
books in history and that rips  apart the meaning.
AntiUtopia:	I have this theory...Anne Rice is Salinger in Drag.
AstroMan60:	LOL
SLorra0407:	why do you think so, stupies?
AntiUtopia:	I think Salinger would agree.
SadIdLady:	have mercy
SLorra0407:	geesh, Jim!
SadIdLady:	I think Salinger would agree too
AntiUtopia:	ever see em both in the same room?
StupiesCuz:	I think Salinger would agree, too, Jim, he was known
to have
women's shoes in his closet.
AntiUtopia:	there ya go :)
SLorra0407:	I don't even have a picture of Salinger
AntiUtopia:	well, NOW you do :)
SLorra0407:	it was a shoe thing, not a rice thing!
AntiUtopia:	OKAY, now, how do we approach Catcher without
ANALyzing it to
death?
StupiesCuz:	It's always about the shoes..
AntiUtopia:	Yeah, women and their shoes...
SadIdLady:	hmm, the Salinger as Anne Rice theory.. slightly
resembles the
Bronte theory
StupiesCuz:	Well, Jim, you can analyze it, but not into the
ground, like
almost everyone has.
SLorra0407:	Seriously, though, Stupes, why do you think it's
overanalyzed?  I
do think it's  a fairly
StupiesCuz:	Well.. because I have heard so many opinions about it,
people
finding meanins and symbolism
AntiUtopia:	Hello September. We're discussing Catcher :)
SadIdLady:	hey Sept
AstroMan60:	Sept I like your SN
SLorra0407:	simple book and definantly applicable today's
adolescents, but -
and I've not read any
StupiesCuz:	in it.. pushing it into the ground
AntiUtopia:	yeah, cool :)  The man's a date :)
Sept 26 45:	Hi Stupies....I'm the gal who bothered u last night
SLorra0407:	scriticism, but...
StupiesCuz:	Oh, hey Sept. :)
SLorra0407:	hi Sept  :)
Sept 26 45:	Hi
AntiUtopia:	oops.  the Gal's a date :)
AntiUtopia:	you always have a date.  ha ha.
StupiesCuz:	Whose date? My date? No, not yours, mine!
AntiUtopia:	Salinger dedicated one of his books to any "amateur
readers left
in the world"
StupiesCuz:	Unlike today's date.
SLorra0407:	which one?
AstroMan60:	which one?
AntiUtopia:	which I take to mean he was sick of overanalyzation
himself.
StupiesCuz:	Yes, which one?
AntiUtopia:	eh...lemme check...
StupiesCuz:	I've heard of that, I think..
AntiUtopia:	Yeah, it's either F and Z or Seymour
SLorra0407:	Stupes, if that's the case, then I can see where you
might think
it's overanalyzed.  Seems
JediMars:	raise high the roof beam carpenters
AntiUtopia:	brb
JediMars:	i think
StupiesCuz:	Ah, the disrespectful humans, analyzing his books
against his
will! How darest we!
SLorra0407:	like a pretty straight forward illustration to me.  I
was
surprised when Jim told me when he
SLorra0407:	had written it
AstroMan60:	<~~not human
StupiesCuz:	It's gonna be okay, Astro.
AntiUtopia:	right, that's it Jedi
AstroMan60:	an't put the blame of overanilization on me
AstroMan60:	an't = can't
AntiUtopia:	Yeah, Yeah, I agree with the sentiments, Cuz
StupiesCuz:	I loved Raise High the Roof Beam, Carpenters...
SLorra0407:	me either, Astro  :)
AntiUtopia:	eh, how about we talk about ONE book :)
StupiesCuz:	We are.. one at a time
SadIdLady:	:)
AstroMan60:	one Book? Ha impossible
Sept 26 45:	so does anyone what really happened between Seymour
and the tree?
AntiUtopia:	Ok, Catcher is overanalyzed.  Saligner thinks his work
has been
overanalyzed
AntiUtopia:	had a great love affair and raised little saplings.
AntiUtopia:	So, what about Catcher?
StupiesCuz:	<laughs>
StupiesCuz:	Aaaanyway..
AntiUtopia:	if we aren't supposed to overanalyze it, what then?
SadIdLady:	maybe just read and enjoy
StupiesCuz:	Simply analyze, interpret, precept.. not push into the
ground by
making every high school student read it
AntiUtopia:	Seriously, I think Seymour had suicidal thoughts and
maybe
thought of driving into a tree.
AntiUtopia:	Not sure.
StupiesCuz:	and explain it to them, etc
AstroMan60:	<had to overanalyze it (read it for school)
Sept 26 45:	can't just enjoy it if a professor wants a 10 page
essay written
AntiUtopia:	there ya go.
SLorra0407:	I tend to think every high school student could gain a
lot by
reading it
AntiUtopia:	I can see all that.
StupiesCuz:	Jim, nice idea, but would he drive into a tree with
Muriel with
him?
SadIdLady:	high school students are the best people to read
Catcher
AstroMan60:	They Made Me do It!!!
SLorra0407:	and THEY are unlikely to overanalyze it
AntiUtopia:	Maybe just read it, identify with Holden,
AntiUtopia:	Nah, he wouldn't :)
SLorra0407:	geesh, 10 pp!
StupiesCuz:	SLorra... Most high school students I know hate it..
and only
realize they like it later on
Sept 26 45:	ya..ridiculous
StupiesCuz:	And then not many
AstroMan60:	What the heck was Holden's problem anyway?
StupiesCuz:	Their loss =)
AntiUtopia:	maybe know that someone else out there feels the way
they do.
SadIdLady:	I loved it in high school.. but I'm old
SLorra0407:	It would be easy to do 10 pp, but that is
overanalyzing it
AntiUtopia:	TOTAL disillusionment with everyone.
Sept 26 45:	10 pages on bananafish..not catcher
AntiUtopia:	I would say that was Holden's problem.
AstroMan60:	Sad no such thing as old, just experienced
SLorra0407:	Stupes, I felt like Holden had a perspective of the
world that
many teens have - everyone is
SLorra0407:	a fake and living a lie.
AntiUtopia:	yeah.  His internal commentary on everyone was pretty
negative.
SLorra0407:	I'm not so sure he isn't right, and I'm a ways from
high school
SadIdLady:	total disillusionment with himself
StupiesCuz:	SLorra... teens don't often like to see their feelings
written
out..perhaps thats why they
StupiesCuz:	do not appreciate it
AntiUtopia:	except for Phoebe (his sun) and Allie
AstroMan60:	SL i don't have that perspectivve on the world and i'm
16
SLorra0407:	but Phoebe and Allie were real, not living the adult
lies
AntiUtopia:	good point Astro.
StupiesCuz:	Allie was sort of dead, SLorra..
SLorra0407:	sorry, Jim, I told you I'd be crashing your chat :)
AntiUtopia:	sort of, but not in a Zen way :)
AntiUtopia:	crash, crash :)
StupiesCuz:	Dead in a Zen way?
AntiUtopia:	what is the sound of one corpse clapping? :)
SadIdLady:	dead in a cemetery way
AntiUtopia:	ANYWAYS, he did have problems with everyone...
SLorra0407:	Allie was dead, true, but he'd lived "real" and I
think that was
Holden's problem
SLorra0407:	You're right, astro, maybe most teens don't view the
world that
way.  I didn't, but do now
AntiUtopia:	and I wouldn't say ALL teens have that problem, but
some do, at
least.
SLorra0407:	:)
AntiUtopia:	so we have someone that's regressing :)
StupiesCuz:	the entire book was about Holden trying to grow up..
ovbiously
Allie reminded him of childhood as did Phoebe
AntiUtopia:	hmmm....
AstroMan60:	i have a problem with negative people
AntiUtopia:	that's interesting Cuz.
AntiUtopia:	real negative about em.
AstroMan60:	i thought it was about Holden not growing up
StupiesCuz:	Ack, ack, spelling typos!
SLorra0407:	hmmm.....  NO, I think the whole book was about Holden
learning
to deal with accepted behaviors
AntiUtopia:	right.  Well, what was he gonna do?
StupiesCuz:	Astro, my key word was *trying*
AntiUtopia:	he wanted to run off into the woods.
AstroMan60:	ahh
AntiUtopia:	abandon all human society, even family, for all
purposes.
SLorra0407:	and live "real"--was that such a bad thing? 
Unrealistic, yes,
but better men than the character Holden have had the same idea
AstroMan60:	i want to live in the woods
StupiesCuz:	This two line AOL limit is really obnoxious.
AntiUtopia:	right.  He wanted to get away from everyone because
everyone was
so Fake.
StupiesCuz:	Some of us live in the woods.
AntiUtopia:	it's about frustrated idealism, inability to accept
the world as
it is,
StupiesCuz:	but he didn't think *everyone* was fake.. not the
nuns..
AntiUtopia:	loneliness and isolation.
SLorra0407:	I live in a cotton field - but that dosen't make the
people
around anymore real
AntiUtopia:	true.  Probably just Most people.
SLorra0407:	Phoebe and Allie were interesting characters in the
book because
they
AntiUtopia:	you live IN a cotton field?
SLorra0407:	painted what was real, what Holden wanted to hold onto
AntiUtopia:	must be awful prickly :)
StupiesCuz:	lol..
SLorra0407:	Well, close :)
AntiUtopia:	heh :)
AstroMan60:	What did Holden want to hold on to?
StupiesCuz:	His childhood, Astro..
AntiUtopia:	Good question...
AntiUtopia:	hmmm...
SLorra0407:	not childhood, he wanted to hold onto genuineness,
innocence,
truth
AstroMan60:	it goes deeper than that tho. . . (i think)
AntiUtopia:	he was pretty adolescent too, though.
StupiesCuz:	he started the book by talking about his childhood and
often
brought allie and phoebe up
SLorra0407:	I don't know how to really define it... I don't think
he did
AstroMan60:	BRB
StupiesCuz:	Innocence=childhood
AntiUtopia:	Teenager with lots of cash on his own.  What did he
do? Drink all
he could and try to get laid.  That much is predictable.
StupiesCuz:	Why predictable?
SLorra0407:	hmmm... but with the cynical understanding of what the
adult
world was like and dangers involved in demanding it
AntiUtopia:	eh, cause I ACTED that way :)
StupiesCuz:	I think drinking and trying to get laid (which he
didn't really)
was the opposite of him wanting to be a kid again.
SadIdLady:	yeah, that's a given
StupiesCuz:	or still
AntiUtopia:	right, that's why I pointed that out.
AntiUtopia:	he wasn't Mr. Innocence either.
StupiesCuz:	His uhm... contradicting qualities or something.
SLorra0407:	but he was even disgusted with that behavior - he just
didn't
know what to do with
AstroMan60:	Jim are you saying any Teen with money would get drunk
and try to
get laid?
StupiesCuz:	Is anyone here an English major? <grin>
SLorra0407:	himself when he did have time. freedom to do what he
wanted
AstroMan60:	<~~would like to be
AntiUtopia:	Most of the ones I have known would.  The Males, that
is.
AntiUtopia:	ALL my friends in HS were just like that.
SadIdLady:	pretty much Astro.. unless teenage boys have changed a
lot
SLorra0407:	NONE of my friends in HS were like that :D
AstroMan60:	<~~is male and does not want that. . .i am against
drinking and
smoking for that matter
StupiesCuz:	Astro, it's somewhat of a stereotype..
AntiUtopia:	eh, I'm an ENGLISH Major, I'm afraid :)
AntiUtopia:	good Astro.  You are the exception.
SLorra0407:	everyone throw stones  LOL!
AntiUtopia:	I knew people like you in HS too.
StupiesCuz:	Are you really? <takes two steps back>
AstroMan60:	i love being the exception
SLorra0407:	Actually, Astro, I suspect you aren't the exception 
:)
AntiUtopia:	but they were rare.
SadIdLady:	very rare
AntiUtopia:	not in my area, that is all.
SadIdLady:	very, very rare
AntiUtopia:	out of ten friends I had, maybe one fit that category.
AstroMan60:	yes i am, i dumped my last g/f when i found out she
had been
drinking one night
StupiesCuz:	I don't have any male friends that drink and smoke, in
fact none
do..
SadIdLady:	good for you, Astro (the mother in me speaking)
StupiesCuz:	Hmm..
AntiUtopia:	the book, the book! :)
StupiesCuz:	Does anyone find anything in common between Seymour
and Salinger
himself?
AstroMan60:	what book what book?
SLorra0407:	I would argue where I went to HS, only about 10%
actually wanted
that
AntiUtopia:	HA
AntiUtopia:	good Slorra.
AntiUtopia:	THE BOOK.
StupiesCuz:	*the* book? oooo...
SLorra0407:	yes sir  <saluting>  LOL
AntiUtopia:	heh  :)
AstroMan60:	Which Book? do you have any idea how many books there
are in this
world of yours?
SLorra0407:	good, astro, very good :D
AntiUtopia:	ANYWAYS :)  Hard for me to compare Seymour with
salinger without
knowing Sal...
StupiesCuz:	He's an English major, sheesh.. Astro..
AntiUtopia:	I've died and gone to hell...
AntiUtopia:	:)
SLorra0407:	Tell me about Seymour?
SadIdLady:	LOL
StupiesCuz:	Well..
AstroMan60:	MWA HA HA HA!!!
AntiUtopia:	Alright, since we're talking Seymour, let's talk Nine
Stories.
AntiUtopia:	A Perfect day for Bananafish.
StupiesCuz:	Seymour even sounds like Salinger.. both begin and end
with the
same letters
AntiUtopia:	BTW, This is turning out to be a great chat :)
SLorra0407:	oh dear, let's not get quite that simple
AntiUtopia:	Very Punny :)
SadIdLady:	have mercy
AstroMan60:	Have not Read Nine Stories
SLorra0407:	me either
StupiesCuz:	Did anyone catch that when Seymour said "They got
banana fever
and died".. he was sort of projecting
AntiUtopia:	Ok, in A Perfect Day for Bananafish, Seymour is on his
honeymoon
AntiUtopia:	right, Cuz :)
AntiUtopia:	and at the end of the story puts a bullet in his head.
SLorra0407:	eeewww. .. why?
StupiesCuz:	And the feet comment hadn't much to do with the bullet
AntiUtopia:	This is a big deal, because Seymour was the spiritual
head of the
family
StupiesCuz:	SL, you didn't know?
AntiUtopia:	That is the question, Sheridan :)
AntiUtopia:	why?
SLorra0407:	sorry, I haven't gotten to this book yet
AstroMan60:	nor have i
AstroMan60:	BRB
Sept 26 45:	what is all your people's take on the incident in the
elavator?
StupiesCuz:	Oh.. we just ruined the ending for you..
AntiUtopia:	It's a very important even because it effected the
whole family,
and all other
AntiUtopia:	glass stories make reference to it somehow, pretty
much
SLorra0407:	no, it's okay.  It won't ruin it, just make me want to
crash your
chat and put y'all behind
JediMars:	doesn't he kill himself because he's too happy?
SLorra0407:	next time :)
AntiUtopia:	ugh, EVENT, because..
StupiesCuz:	hehe, SL
AntiUtopia:	right, that's what Buddy thought, Jedi.
AstroMan60:	Too happy? HMMMMm no such thing
StupiesCuz:	I don't think that's true..
AntiUtopia:	in the story, the bananafish eat too many bananas and
die
StupiesCuz:	When Seymour made that comment about Muriel "could be
any one of
a thousand places" he seemed not to know or care where she was
AntiUtopia:	and Seymour is wearing a YELLOW robe
StupiesCuz:	Oh, Jim, that's so relevant..
Sept 26 45:	it's yellow?
AntiUtopia:	right, it seemed like he was avoiding Muriel.
AntiUtopia:	yep
SLorra0407:	hmmmm, sounds like a story begging to be analyzed
AntiUtopia:	he was a big banana:)
StupiesCuz:	I'd hate to die in a yellow robe.
SadIdLady:	lol Cuz
AntiUtopia:	I'm afraid that's happening.  And the play on his name
AntiUtopia:	See More Glass.
AntiUtopia:	that's what the kid said.
StupiesCuz:	Oooh, wait, that is relevant, I hadn't noticed
JediMars:	i thought he was the bananafish
AstroMan60:	<~~hate to be caught wearing Banana yellow
AntiUtopia:	right.  That's what I think.
Sept 26 45:	so why did he snip at the lady in the elevator...?
StupiesCuz:	Hmm...
AntiUtopia:	he was acting like a child, trying to deal with her on
that level
AntiUtopia:	that's what I thought.
StupiesCuz:	Yes, like he had with Sybil..
AntiUtopia:	it was like the teasing he did with the girl on the
beach
AntiUtopia:	right, the young girl.
StupiesCuz:	Did anyone find that Sybil and Muriel had very
parallel lives?
Sept 26 45:	but what is his fascination with feet?
AntiUtopia:	hmmm...
AntiUtopia:	he kissed Sybil on the foot...
Sept 26 45:	and grabbed her ankles
StupiesCuz:	For example.. both spoke of fathers who never
appeared, not
talked about suburn and
AntiUtopia:	said the lady that walked into the elevator was
looking at his
feet.
StupiesCuz:	sun lotion as well as the piano.. (one being jealous
the other
seeing him play)
AntiUtopia:	hmmm....
AntiUtopia:	that's interesting, never noticed that...
StupiesCuz:	not? uhm... forget that not in front of talked about
sunburn
StupiesCuz:	Also..
AstroMan60:	SL are you confusd?
StupiesCuz:	Seymour is the only man in the story who actually
appears...
AntiUtopia:	yeah...
AntiUtopia:	that's true too.
StupiesCuz:	Even the elevator person was a female, which in
Salinger's times
was unusual
SLorra0407:	not too bad.  I just wish I'd read the book.  It
sounds
fascinating and VERY different from
SLorra0407:	Catcher
AntiUtopia:	you're right :)
AntiUtopia:	it is VERY different. TOTALLY different.
AntiUtopia:	Mabye some Glass family background would be
appropriate?
StupiesCuz:	it is, SL.. most people read Catcher and some are
disappointed
with it and don't give 9 Stories a try
Sept 26 45:	so what's with the feet...does he have a fetish?
AntiUtopia:	Seymour is the oldest child, the next oldest was Buddy
AntiUtopia:	I have to think about that a bit, I don't know what
the feet may
mean.
StupiesCuz:	Then there is Boo Boo
StupiesCuz:	and Franny and Zooey
AntiUtopia:	Buddy was an author and "wrote" the stories about
Seymour
AntiUtopia:	and Walt is older than F and Z
JediMars:	and Waker
StupiesCuz:	Right, there is Walt too..
StupiesCuz:	And Waker..
AntiUtopia:	Yeah, Waker and Walt were twins, right?
Sept 26 45:	Why does Seymour think Sybil's bathing suit is blue?
JediMars:	yup
StupiesCuz:	G-m bazillion kids they had
SLorra0407:	geesh, talk about a lot of kids!
AntiUtopia:	yep :)
AntiUtopia:	all very intelligent,
AstroMan60:	AHHHH to many kids
AntiUtopia:	all on the radio.
StupiesCuz:	Walt and Waker went almost unmentioned
AntiUtopia:	I think Seymour was just teasing Sybil about the color
of her
suit.
StupiesCuz:	They make me think of Disney and Texas
AntiUtopia:	Yeah, they aren't developed as much.
AntiUtopia:	heh :)
StupiesCuz:	What was the real colour of it?
AstroMan60:	i'm going to have to read it now to get my mind
organized
AntiUtopia:	eh....lemme check...
JediMars:	yellow
Sept 26 45:	do u think he said that so she would move closer to
him to see
the suit?
StupiesCuz:	Oh it was yellow... <just read
AntiUtopia:	yep
AntiUtopia:	canary yellow.
StupiesCuz:	I think that perhaps he wanted to deny that it was
yellow?
AntiUtopia:	like a bananafish :)
AntiUtopia:	or a banana
AntiUtopia:	I think he was just teashing her :)
AntiUtopia:	now I have a lihsp :)
StupiesCuz:	Right..
StupiesCuz:	<nod>
SLorra0407:	:)
Sept 26 45:	a lithsp?
AntiUtopia:	yaf.  a lihsp.
StupiesCuz:	That's an interesting todbit..
AntiUtopia:	right.  There's a lot going on in this story...
StupiesCuz:	tidbit too.. ergh
AntiUtopia:	but it seems hard to come up with definite answers :)
Sept 26 45:	the colors mean somethin..the feet mean somethin..the
tree means
sumthin....sheeeesh
AntiUtopia:	none of us can type, that's ok :)
StupiesCuz:	Glass is almost an anagram of Salinger
AntiUtopia:	right, and we can't say for sure what any of it means.
StupiesCuz:	I fit right in <grin>
SLorra0407:	all spelling error are the fault of aol and should not
be
corrected by chat members
AntiUtopia:	haw haw :)
SLorra0407:	I remember reading that in the new TOS rules ;D
AntiUtopia:	Shure slorrit
AntiUtopia:	heh :)
SLorra0407:	If you call me slaw, I'm giving you a knuckle
sandwich!
StupiesCuz:	Ooh, how obnoxious when your boss IMs you when you are
talking
about good old Salinger.
Sept 26 45:	i think Seymour had tried to drive around the tree so
he would
disappear like the tigers did
AntiUtopia:	Ok, anyways, Seymour and Buddy made all their younger
siblings
read voraciously,
AntiUtopia:	and read heavily--eastern philosophy, etc.
AntiUtopia:	and Seymour was the most looked up to.
AntiUtopia:	when he killed himself, that left everyone flat,
wondering What
the heck was going on
StupiesCuz:	Zooey wasn't too fond of it, was he?
AstroMan60:	Voraciously? Jim please use smaller words remember
school has not
started yet my mind is out of order
SLorra0407:	voraciously is a FUN word though
AntiUtopia:	Yeah, I think the younger siblings resented all that
pushing on
some level.
StupiesCuz:	You can make wicked anagrams out of it <grin>
AntiUtopia:	heh :)  Sorry astro.  Ruh roah :)
SLorra0407:	lol, Cuz!
AntiUtopia:	haw haw.
StupiesCuz:	And all the glass siblings were on a radio show...
AntiUtopia:	right, It's a Wonderful Child or something like that.
AntiUtopia:	Child prodigys
JediMars:	wise child:)
AntiUtopia:	Zooey and Franny were actors, as was Mom.
AntiUtopia:	there ya go, It's a Wise Child :)
StupiesCuz:	Yeah...
AntiUtopia:	thanks Jedi :)
JediMars:	sure:)
AntiUtopia:	That's a big deal too.  Children seem to be elevated
in Salinger's works,
Sept 26 45:	i'm lost...was the glass family fictional?
StupiesCuz:	The kids never called their parents "mom" and "dad"
too..
AstroMan60:	I live in an anti utopia (oops sorry for getting off
track)
AntiUtopia:	yep, but the way Salinger handled them you'd think
they weren't
:)
StupiesCuz:	Yes Sept. Salinger's main work was creating and
evolving the
Glass family
AntiUtopia:	he definitely crosses some lines :)
Sept 26 45:	does Salinger have any siblings?
AntiUtopia:	I don't know :)
JediMars:	a sister i think
StupiesCuz:	<is Salinger's sibling
StupiesCuz:	:)
Sept 26 45:	where does he live today?
SLorra0407:	lol cuz!  Are you really sure you wann be?
AntiUtopia:	somewhere in NY
AstroMan60:	don't live a lie Holden will hate you ;-)
AntiUtopia:	upstate, I think.
StupiesCuz:	he's a recluse in New Hampshire I think..
AntiUtopia:	yeah, he is definitely a recluse
JediMars:	i thought cornish, new hampshire
AntiUtopia:	that's right.
AntiUtopia:	JEEZ thank God for Jedi :)
Sept 26 45:	has he changed his name..or what?...he may be in here
right now!!
AntiUtopia:	SOMEONE has to know the details :)
JediMars:	:)
StupiesCuz:	Sure Jim... NY, NH.. same darn thing
AntiUtopia:	I vote for Jedi :)
AntiUtopia:	to me it is :)
AntiUtopia:	heh :)
SLorra0407:	er, not at all, cuz
AstroMan60:	Jedi are you by chance Salinger in disguise?
SLorra0407:	VERY different
AntiUtopia:	hmmm...nope, she's too nice :)
StupiesCuz:	SL, don't have to tell me, I live in NY.
JediMars:	nope:)
StupiesCuz:	Jedi, are you female?
AstroMan60:	are you sure check one more time
StupiesCuz:	Because if you are..
JediMars:	yeah
StupiesCuz:	it would explain the whole Salinger drag thing we
talked about
earlier..
AntiUtopia:	Alright, then, why did Seymour kill himself?
AntiUtopia:	OH GAWD CUZ :)
StupiesCuz:	hehe :)
AntiUtopia:	So Jedi is Anne Rice :)
Sept 26 45:	the war screwed him up
SLorra0407:	lol!  your words come back to haunt you
AntiUtopia:	happens all the time :)
AntiUtopia:	OH, one question guys, can I send this chat as an
e-mail to the
AntiUtopia:	JD Salinger listserve?
AstroMan60:	i don't care
AntiUtopia:	does anyone mind?
StupiesCuz:	Give us a minute to consider considering, please, Jim.
AntiUtopia:	ok :)
AntiUtopia:	I do post all our chats to the boards :)
StupiesCuz:	Hmm.. I often think of Salinger as expressing himself
through
Seymour.
AntiUtopia:	send them to Congress.
AntiUtopia:	Publish them in the New York Times.
AntiUtopia:	but other than that...
StupiesCuz:	Congress! Whoo.. hit the big time.
Sept 26 45:	salinger expresses himself in all his work
SLorra0407:	great, next we'll all be asked to do dna testing
SLorra0407:	Jim are you sure you can stand up to that?
AntiUtopia:	Right, that's the thing.  A lot of people identify
Salinger with
Buddy,
StupiesCuz:	That's true, Sept, but more so, it seems, through
Seymour.
AntiUtopia:	cause Buddy's an author.
JediMars:	buddy and salinger have a lot in common
Sept 26 45:	holden is definetly salinger
AntiUtopia:	eh....I don't have DNA, Sheridan :)
StupiesCuz:	How do you know, Sept?
SLorra0407:	I knew it! You aren't human!
Sept 26 45:	well..definetly in my mind
AntiUtopia:	hehehehehehhhhh :)
AntiUtopia:	Any more ideas on Catcher or Bananafish?
StupiesCuz:	Why, though, Sept?
Sept 26 45:	because when u create a character...it's you..no
matter how hard
u don't want it to be....
StupiesCuz:	We are idealists with ideas and idols and idioms
AntiUtopia:	that's true, Sept.
StupiesCuz:	Ah, it's only partially true..
SLorra0407:	hem, can I come back and compare them at the next
chat? Will
y'all mind if I make you rehash it?
AntiUtopia:	heh, good un, Cuz.
StupiesCuz:	Sometimes your writing can only mean you were shaken
too hard as
a baby
AntiUtopia:	yeah--the rest of the truth is that a writer expresses
himself
through ALL his characters.
SLorra0407:	ya think, Cuz?  :)
StupiesCuz:	Of course we mind, what do you think we gather here
for, to talk
about Salinger or something
AntiUtopia:	Mr. Antolini was critical of Holden, so that means
Salinger was
too.
AntiUtopia:	compare away, Slorra :)
SLorra0407:	well, since I'm behind and all.  If you're going to
get
impatient... :)
StupiesCuz:	Well, I definitely agree and will defend the point
that an author
expresses himself through
StupiesCuz:	his characters, but not 100% percent
AntiUtopia:	Next chat, Bananafish and Uncle Wiggly in Connecticut
SLorra0407:	why not 100%, Cuz?
StupiesCuz:	Sometimes the readers pick up on the wrong things..
Sept 26 45:	when Anti?
SadIdLady:	two weeks, right?
StupiesCuz:	Jim, how are we on schedule? Are we completely ruining
it?
AntiUtopia:	two weeks from tonight, everyone here is on the
mailing list :)
AntiUtopia:	tis right :)
AntiUtopia:	We are right on schedule.
StupiesCuz:	Why don't we do this every Friday?
SLorra0407:	but how the readers interpret has nothing to do with
the writer's
expression
AntiUtopia:	cause my wife would KILL me :)
Sept 26 45:	the reader picks up whatever his/her experiences lead
him to
beleive
AntiUtopia:	if you want to use a text to get back to the author,
that's one thing.
SadIdLady:	cause I have Steinbeck group on the other friday
StupiesCuz:	SL, how you intepret, though, changes your view of the
writer's
expression
SadIdLady:	and it's hard to schedule weekly
Sept 26 45:	my paper is due on mon...i'll let u guys know how i do
AntiUtopia:	if you just want to get something out of a text,
that's another.
AntiUtopia:	Yeah, that would be cool, Sept :)
SLorra0407:	true, but it has nothing to do with the author's
original intent
AntiUtopia:	the author's original intent is always unknown,
sometimes even to
the author himself.
Sept 26 45:	sometimes the author has no intent at all
AntiUtopia:	right.
AntiUtopia:	some authors say that about their work.
StupiesCuz:	SL, you dont know the author's original intent.. your
perception
of it is the original intent
AntiUtopia:	In literary crit that's called the intentional fallacy
SLorra0407:	oh dear, I didn't mean to go there  :)
AntiUtopia:	but that doesn't mean a text can mean anything we want
it to mean
:)
AntiUtopia:	you got that right :)
StupiesCuz:	Jim, the text means what you think it means.. the text
does not
have a particular meaning
StupiesCuz:	like a color can be red and nothing else..
StupiesCuz:	Here I go with my analogies..
AntiUtopia:	not one meaning, but a limited range of meanings.
Sept 26 45:	a text can mean anything we want it to mean...it was
written for
the authors..and the reader's enjoyment.
SLorra0407:	I would disagree with you, 'cuz...  and please don't
start the
logic arguments  :)
AntiUtopia:	so, can I take your text to mean, Sept, that every
text has only
one possible meaning?
Sept 26 45:	no..the opposite
AntiUtopia:	but that's how I want your text to mean :)
AntiUtopia:	that's how I take it :)
AntiUtopia:	is that accurate?
AntiUtopia:	can I say that truthfully>
AntiUtopia:	?
StupiesCuz:	The wheels on a bus go round and round, round and
round...
AstroMan60:	Ahh one point for the english major
SLorra0407:	you're being evil  :)
StupiesCuz:	Jim means he is mean :)
AstroMan60:	Sl that is what english majors are EVIL
AntiUtopia:	my misinterpretation of Sept's statement was outside
the range of
meaning of her statement
AntiUtopia:	red is never yellow.
SLorra0407:	Oh!  Thanks for clearing that up Astro
Sept 26 45:	you should take what u want from a text..don't let
others
opinions sway your interpretations
AntiUtopia:	uh...
StupiesCuz:	And thanks for clearing *that* up, Jim.
StupiesCuz:	We would have never known... that red... is actually
never
yellow.
SLorra0407:	Yes, but what I see as red, may be what you see as
yellow.  We
have no way of knowing, so
AntiUtopia:	I'm not saying there's only ONE meaning for a piece of
literature,
AntiUtopia:	you need to read Wittgenstien, Sheridan :)
StupiesCuz:	Sept, what are you, a solipsist?
SLorra0407:	in that sense I guess y'all are right, but the author
did have an
intent at some point
SLorra0407:	a meaning, at any rate for his story
SLorra0407:	It's on the list, Jim, along with everything else :)
AntiUtopia:	**A** meaning, or just meaning?
Sept 26 45:	his intent was to sell a million books
AntiUtopia:	heh :)
AntiUtopia:	there ya go Sept :0
SLorra0407:	not necessarily, Sept.  :)
AntiUtopia:	:)
AstroMan60:	$$$$$$$$
SadIdLady:	and I need to read Dubus.. so I'm going to head out.
SLorra0407:	Some of us don't write for money
AntiUtopia:	alright, thanks for coming Trish :)
AntiUtopia:	this was a fun chat :)
StupiesCuz:	Some of us don't buy for money.. uh.. I mean..
Sept 26 45:	the ones with publishers do
AstroMan60:	nite Trish
AntiUtopia:	heh :)
SadIdLady:	see you all later, have a nice nite :)
StupiesCuz:	Night Sad
AntiUtopia:	you too :)
SLorra0407:	night Trish  :)
SadIdLady:	nite Jim, everyone
AntiUtopia:	keep that humor coming :)
AntiUtopia:	thanks :)
StupiesCuz:	Anyhow..
StupiesCuz:	Bananafish!
SLorra0407:	that sounds like a fun swear word  :D
StupiesCuz:	You goddam bananafish!
StupiesCuz:	hehe..
AntiUtopia:	I would say texts are capable of multiple meanings,
but some
meanings are more valid than'
AstroMan60:	OHHHH BANANAFISH!!!!
AntiUtopia:	others
AntiUtopia:	some interpretations, that is.
SLorra0407:	sounds very satisfying. And looks satisfying too :)
StupiesCuz:	I think once you read a text it become subjective.
SLorra0407:	And that's an example of interpretation
AntiUtopia:	nothing like a banana on a hot summer's night :)
AntiUtopia:	eh...
StupiesCuz:	Someone else telling you what they think it means --
shouldn't
mean much to you
AntiUtopia:	what did I just say?
Sept 26 45:	what is seymour ultimately trying to teach Sybil?
AntiUtopia:	I would say to be kind...
AstroMan60:	i think i'll go get a banana right now brb
SLorra0407:	you said you were bananas, Jim?  :D
AntiUtopia:	not poke the dog with a stick, etc.
AntiUtopia:	eh... :)
StupiesCuz:	I think I'll go get a fish
Sept 26 45:	why does he tell the banafish story?
AntiUtopia:	there are subjective and objective elements to
reading.
AstroMan60:	OH BANANAFISH!! were out of bananas
AntiUtopia:	that's a good question, Sept.
StupiesCuz:	I think he tells it as a joke, but also to say that
some of them
died
Sept 26 45:	i have a brown banana here
SLorra0407:	very good question, Sept.  and keep going Jim
AntiUtopia:	take too much in and you drown.
AntiUtopia:	make a shake out of it, Sept :0
AntiUtopia:	:)
AstroMan60:	E-mail it to me i'm hungry for a banana
StupiesCuz:	Split it, I say
SLorra0407:	oh, yes, we have no banananas.  we have no bananas
today :D
Sept 26 45:	i think it was seymours way of tellin Sybil about
himself..and
the war
AstroMan60:	SL LOL
AntiUtopia:	ooh, now that's good, Sept :)
SLorra0407:	my dad's favorite song
AntiUtopia:	I think we have ONE banana, Sheridan :)
SLorra0407:	but that dosen't fit in the song
AntiUtopia:	Remember the Banana Splits?
Sept 26 45:	there is a band out there called bananafish
AstroMan60:	did it suddenly get dark here or is it just me?
AntiUtopia:	I think everyone here is too young...
AntiUtopia:	sigh :)
StupiesCuz:	I think Seymour had an obsessive compulsive disorder
with
cleanness..
SLorra0407:	gee, are you the old man here?
AstroMan60:	And he said let there be light
SLorra0407:	grandpa  LOL
AntiUtopia:	Where's trish when I need her :)
AstroMan60:	and there wasn't
AntiUtopia:	eh...I'm 34.
AstroMan60:	hmmmm
StupiesCuz:	i like banana splits :0
Sept 26 45:	me 2!
SLorra0407:	we know  :)
AntiUtopia:	really?
StupiesCuz:	Well, I brought it up anyhow.
AntiUtopia:	so do you remember the Banana Splits on TV. :)
StupiesCuz:	Really what, Jim?
AstroMan60:	i think i need to go to the ice cream shop down the
street
AntiUtopia:	tell me about it :0
StupiesCuz:	Banana splits from Leave it to Beaver episodes
AntiUtopia:	really is Sept also 34?
Sept 26 45:	actually...my fav ice cream is Ben & Jerry's Chunky
Monkey..
unky Monkey
StupiesCuz:	Oh.. okay.. I don't know if she is..
SLorra0407:	then what does the date mean, sept?
AntiUtopia:	I like Cherry Garcia.
Sept 26 45:	banana ice cream/fudge/walnuts
Sept 26 45:	yummy
AntiUtopia:	allergic to nuts.  Ironic :)
StupiesCuz:	I'm allergic to Jerry Garcia.
AntiUtopia:	and the vanilla is almost intoxicating :)
AstroMan60:	Jim you're allegic to me?
SLorra0407:	gee, then mine is boring..  I like Oreo..  Yes, it is
Jim :)
AntiUtopia:	heh :)
Sept 26 45:	date of a special birth
AntiUtopia:	ah.
AstroMan60:	who's?
AstroMan60:	?
Sept 26 45:	mum's!
AstroMan60:	cool
AntiUtopia:	cool :)  very sweet.
SLorra0407:	aha!  yeah, that is cool
Sept 26 45:	my late mum's...
StupiesCuz:	There is a conversation stopper. Sorry to hear that,
Sept. :\
AntiUtopia:	yep.  but very nice of you to do that.
StupiesCuz:	It's a nice way to honour her :)
AntiUtopia:	very nice, yes.
Sept 26 45:	it's ok..it's been 2 years.
StupiesCuz:	<nods to Jim> <g>
SLorra0407:	wow, though. She was still very young. I'm sorry Sept.
AntiUtopia:	right, just over 40
Sept 26 45:	yes...almost 51
AntiUtopia:	too young.
AntiUtopia:	oops :)
SLorra0407:	well, we know he wasn't a math major  :)
AntiUtopia:	I'm an English major. I can't add :)
Sept 26 45:	lol
StupiesCuz:	lol SL
AntiUtopia:	still too young, tho.
AstroMan60:	don't worry this ain't a math test
AntiUtopia:	good thing :)
SLorra0407:	thank goodness.  I'd have run like mad
StupiesCuz:	Hmm... does "A perfect day for bananafish"
theoretically mean..
"a perfect day to shoot yourself"?
Sept 26 45:	and my birthday is this monday...anniversary of
Diana's
death...sheesh
AstroMan60:	HMMMM
AntiUtopia:	it almost seems like it...
AntiUtopia:	happy Birthday Sept :)
AstroMan60:	Happy b-day
Sept 26 45:	thnx
StupiesCuz:	yeah, Happy birthday, Sept.. mine just passed :)
SLorra0407:	if the argument was that he was too happy, things were
too
perfect, then that would fit
SLorra0407:	happy birthday Sept  :)
AstroMan60:	Happy B-day Cuz
AntiUtopia:	that was what Buddy said about Seymour.
Sept 26 45:	happy belated
AntiUtopia:	good observation, Sheridan.
SLorra0407:	and Cuz
StupiesCuz:	After telling Sybil about himself... Seymour tells her
to watch
out for the bananafish today
JediMars:	the perfect day is when the bananafish dies
AntiUtopia:	yeah....
AntiUtopia:	and they die by eating too many bananas.
StupiesCuz:	Thanks, btw, for boithday wishies :)
SLorra0407:	so, ostensibly, they die happy?
StupiesCuz:	Good point, SL
AntiUtopia:	happy bd cuz :)
AntiUtopia:	i would think so.  But isn't suicide by happiness kind
of odd?
AntiUtopia:	Why?
SLorra0407:	gee, and I haven't even read the stroy :)
StupiesCuz:	Hmm... or maybe they overeat and are "drowned out" by
bananas?
SLorra0407:	not necessarily, Jim
AntiUtopia:	PLEASE help me out here then :)  It is odd to me :)
StupiesCuz:	Maybe he wasn't able to deal with happiness?
AntiUtopia:	I can understand that.
AstroMan60:	not odd at all
AntiUtopia:	And looking waaay ahead, Teddy said it's hard to be
spiritual in
America
StupiesCuz:	The bunch of us are odd, we shouldn't have trouble
understanding odd things

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