Salinger Chat, part 1
J J R (jrovira@juno.com)
Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:43:37 -0400 (EDT)
This is the text of a Salinger chat we had in an AOL chat room 8/28/98.
We had a good time, talked about Catcher and A Perfect Day for
Bananafish, got to know each other and teased each other incessantly.
This will be in two parts. --Jim :)
OnlineHost:
SadIdLady: hey Jim
AntiUtopia: Woah, I was slow coming in :) Sorry guys :) We have
a nice crowd tonight :) I
stepped into another chat briefly...
StupiesCuz: Hi everyone
SadIdLady: Nic's out planning a friend's bachelor party, so he
won't make it
AntiUtopia: tell him we missed him :) Too bad he's missing on all
the fun here :) heh :)
SadIdLady: hello Astro.. didn't i just see you in ccino?
AstroMan60: yep
SadIdLady: thought so
AntiUtopia: maybe a name check would be good right now so we can
all know
each other :)
StupiesCuz: I saw you somewhere else, too, Astro... Oh, the Anne
Rice group,
no?
AntiUtopia: I'm Jim
SadIdLady: Trish
AstroMan60: yep Anne Rice groupie here. hola Jim, Trish
AntiUtopia: hola :)
StupiesCuz: I'm cuz :)
AntiUtopia: heh. Okay, Cuz :)
AstroMan60: hi Cuz
StupiesCuz: But actually our names us Bob and Dave, we are split
personalities of Jake.
AstroMan60: ok
AntiUtopia: heh :) so which one is out tonight? :)
StupiesCuz: A Perfect Day For Bananafish is my favourite story
from "Nine
Stories"
SadIdLady: okay
AntiUtopia: Cool :) Yeah, I like that one mucho :) Slello Slorra
:)
SLorra0407: hi :)
StupiesCuz: They are in a constant battle to say something, Jim.
Hi Lorra!
SadIdLady: hi SLorra
AntiUtopia: Oh, before we get into Nine Stories, did anyone have
anything
left to say about Catcher?
SadIdLady: and hello Jedi.. sorry
SLorra0407: hi y'all :)
AstroMan60: i don't have nine stories yet 8*-( i'm getting it on
monday tho
JediMars: hi
AntiUtopia: yeah, Hi Jedi :)
StupiesCuz: Jedi, I've seen you somewhere else, too..
SLorra0407: gee, they don't have anything else to say about CITR,
Jim :(
JediMars: where?
StupiesCuz: How mean of us.
AntiUtopia: Oh, give em a minute, we're still getting to know each
other :)
StupiesCuz: Well, us three just don't want to say anything
SLorra0407: ok :)
AstroMan60: i loved Catcher, one of the best non Anne Rice books i
read this
year
AntiUtopia: Oh Lord :)
SadIdLady: lol Astro
SLorra0407: er, it's certainly different from Anne Rice
StupiesCuz: Actually, I think the Catcher is one of the most
overanalyzed
books in history and that rips apart the meaning.
AntiUtopia: I have this theory...Anne Rice is Salinger in Drag.
AstroMan60: LOL
SLorra0407: why do you think so, stupies?
AntiUtopia: I think Salinger would agree.
SadIdLady: have mercy
SLorra0407: geesh, Jim!
SadIdLady: I think Salinger would agree too
AntiUtopia: ever see em both in the same room?
StupiesCuz: I think Salinger would agree, too, Jim, he was known
to have
women's shoes in his closet.
AntiUtopia: there ya go :)
SLorra0407: I don't even have a picture of Salinger
AntiUtopia: well, NOW you do :)
SLorra0407: it was a shoe thing, not a rice thing!
AntiUtopia: OKAY, now, how do we approach Catcher without
ANALyzing it to
death?
StupiesCuz: It's always about the shoes..
AntiUtopia: Yeah, women and their shoes...
SadIdLady: hmm, the Salinger as Anne Rice theory.. slightly
resembles the
Bronte theory
StupiesCuz: Well, Jim, you can analyze it, but not into the
ground, like
almost everyone has.
SLorra0407: Seriously, though, Stupes, why do you think it's
overanalyzed? I
do think it's a fairly
StupiesCuz: Well.. because I have heard so many opinions about it,
people
finding meanins and symbolism
AntiUtopia: Hello September. We're discussing Catcher :)
SadIdLady: hey Sept
AstroMan60: Sept I like your SN
SLorra0407: simple book and definantly applicable today's
adolescents, but -
and I've not read any
StupiesCuz: in it.. pushing it into the ground
AntiUtopia: yeah, cool :) The man's a date :)
Sept 26 45: Hi Stupies....I'm the gal who bothered u last night
SLorra0407: scriticism, but...
StupiesCuz: Oh, hey Sept. :)
SLorra0407: hi Sept :)
Sept 26 45: Hi
AntiUtopia: oops. the Gal's a date :)
AntiUtopia: you always have a date. ha ha.
StupiesCuz: Whose date? My date? No, not yours, mine!
AntiUtopia: Salinger dedicated one of his books to any "amateur
readers left
in the world"
StupiesCuz: Unlike today's date.
SLorra0407: which one?
AstroMan60: which one?
AntiUtopia: which I take to mean he was sick of overanalyzation
himself.
StupiesCuz: Yes, which one?
AntiUtopia: eh...lemme check...
StupiesCuz: I've heard of that, I think..
AntiUtopia: Yeah, it's either F and Z or Seymour
SLorra0407: Stupes, if that's the case, then I can see where you
might think
it's overanalyzed. Seems
JediMars: raise high the roof beam carpenters
AntiUtopia: brb
JediMars: i think
StupiesCuz: Ah, the disrespectful humans, analyzing his books
against his
will! How darest we!
SLorra0407: like a pretty straight forward illustration to me. I
was
surprised when Jim told me when he
SLorra0407: had written it
AstroMan60: <~~not human
StupiesCuz: It's gonna be okay, Astro.
AntiUtopia: right, that's it Jedi
AstroMan60: an't put the blame of overanilization on me
AstroMan60: an't = can't
AntiUtopia: Yeah, Yeah, I agree with the sentiments, Cuz
StupiesCuz: I loved Raise High the Roof Beam, Carpenters...
SLorra0407: me either, Astro :)
AntiUtopia: eh, how about we talk about ONE book :)
StupiesCuz: We are.. one at a time
SadIdLady: :)
AstroMan60: one Book? Ha impossible
Sept 26 45: so does anyone what really happened between Seymour
and the tree?
AntiUtopia: Ok, Catcher is overanalyzed. Saligner thinks his work
has been
overanalyzed
AntiUtopia: had a great love affair and raised little saplings.
AntiUtopia: So, what about Catcher?
StupiesCuz: <laughs>
StupiesCuz: Aaaanyway..
AntiUtopia: if we aren't supposed to overanalyze it, what then?
SadIdLady: maybe just read and enjoy
StupiesCuz: Simply analyze, interpret, precept.. not push into the
ground by
making every high school student read it
AntiUtopia: Seriously, I think Seymour had suicidal thoughts and
maybe
thought of driving into a tree.
AntiUtopia: Not sure.
StupiesCuz: and explain it to them, etc
AstroMan60: <had to overanalyze it (read it for school)
Sept 26 45: can't just enjoy it if a professor wants a 10 page
essay written
AntiUtopia: there ya go.
SLorra0407: I tend to think every high school student could gain a
lot by
reading it
AntiUtopia: I can see all that.
StupiesCuz: Jim, nice idea, but would he drive into a tree with
Muriel with
him?
SadIdLady: high school students are the best people to read
Catcher
AstroMan60: They Made Me do It!!!
SLorra0407: and THEY are unlikely to overanalyze it
AntiUtopia: Maybe just read it, identify with Holden,
AntiUtopia: Nah, he wouldn't :)
SLorra0407: geesh, 10 pp!
StupiesCuz: SLorra... Most high school students I know hate it..
and only
realize they like it later on
Sept 26 45: ya..ridiculous
StupiesCuz: And then not many
AstroMan60: What the heck was Holden's problem anyway?
StupiesCuz: Their loss =)
AntiUtopia: maybe know that someone else out there feels the way
they do.
SadIdLady: I loved it in high school.. but I'm old
SLorra0407: It would be easy to do 10 pp, but that is
overanalyzing it
AntiUtopia: TOTAL disillusionment with everyone.
Sept 26 45: 10 pages on bananafish..not catcher
AntiUtopia: I would say that was Holden's problem.
AstroMan60: Sad no such thing as old, just experienced
SLorra0407: Stupes, I felt like Holden had a perspective of the
world that
many teens have - everyone is
SLorra0407: a fake and living a lie.
AntiUtopia: yeah. His internal commentary on everyone was pretty
negative.
SLorra0407: I'm not so sure he isn't right, and I'm a ways from
high school
SadIdLady: total disillusionment with himself
StupiesCuz: SLorra... teens don't often like to see their feelings
written
out..perhaps thats why they
StupiesCuz: do not appreciate it
AntiUtopia: except for Phoebe (his sun) and Allie
AstroMan60: SL i don't have that perspectivve on the world and i'm
16
SLorra0407: but Phoebe and Allie were real, not living the adult
lies
AntiUtopia: good point Astro.
StupiesCuz: Allie was sort of dead, SLorra..
SLorra0407: sorry, Jim, I told you I'd be crashing your chat :)
AntiUtopia: sort of, but not in a Zen way :)
AntiUtopia: crash, crash :)
StupiesCuz: Dead in a Zen way?
AntiUtopia: what is the sound of one corpse clapping? :)
SadIdLady: dead in a cemetery way
AntiUtopia: ANYWAYS, he did have problems with everyone...
SLorra0407: Allie was dead, true, but he'd lived "real" and I
think that was
Holden's problem
SLorra0407: You're right, astro, maybe most teens don't view the
world that
way. I didn't, but do now
AntiUtopia: and I wouldn't say ALL teens have that problem, but
some do, at
least.
SLorra0407: :)
AntiUtopia: so we have someone that's regressing :)
StupiesCuz: the entire book was about Holden trying to grow up..
ovbiously
Allie reminded him of childhood as did Phoebe
AntiUtopia: hmmm....
AstroMan60: i have a problem with negative people
AntiUtopia: that's interesting Cuz.
AntiUtopia: real negative about em.
AstroMan60: i thought it was about Holden not growing up
StupiesCuz: Ack, ack, spelling typos!
SLorra0407: hmmm..... NO, I think the whole book was about Holden
learning
to deal with accepted behaviors
AntiUtopia: right. Well, what was he gonna do?
StupiesCuz: Astro, my key word was *trying*
AntiUtopia: he wanted to run off into the woods.
AstroMan60: ahh
AntiUtopia: abandon all human society, even family, for all
purposes.
SLorra0407: and live "real"--was that such a bad thing?
Unrealistic, yes,
but better men than the character Holden have had the same idea
AstroMan60: i want to live in the woods
StupiesCuz: This two line AOL limit is really obnoxious.
AntiUtopia: right. He wanted to get away from everyone because
everyone was
so Fake.
StupiesCuz: Some of us live in the woods.
AntiUtopia: it's about frustrated idealism, inability to accept
the world as
it is,
StupiesCuz: but he didn't think *everyone* was fake.. not the
nuns..
AntiUtopia: loneliness and isolation.
SLorra0407: I live in a cotton field - but that dosen't make the
people
around anymore real
AntiUtopia: true. Probably just Most people.
SLorra0407: Phoebe and Allie were interesting characters in the
book because
they
AntiUtopia: you live IN a cotton field?
SLorra0407: painted what was real, what Holden wanted to hold onto
AntiUtopia: must be awful prickly :)
StupiesCuz: lol..
SLorra0407: Well, close :)
AntiUtopia: heh :)
AstroMan60: What did Holden want to hold on to?
StupiesCuz: His childhood, Astro..
AntiUtopia: Good question...
AntiUtopia: hmmm...
SLorra0407: not childhood, he wanted to hold onto genuineness,
innocence,
truth
AstroMan60: it goes deeper than that tho. . . (i think)
AntiUtopia: he was pretty adolescent too, though.
StupiesCuz: he started the book by talking about his childhood and
often
brought allie and phoebe up
SLorra0407: I don't know how to really define it... I don't think
he did
AstroMan60: BRB
StupiesCuz: Innocence=childhood
AntiUtopia: Teenager with lots of cash on his own. What did he
do? Drink all
he could and try to get laid. That much is predictable.
StupiesCuz: Why predictable?
SLorra0407: hmmm... but with the cynical understanding of what the
adult
world was like and dangers involved in demanding it
AntiUtopia: eh, cause I ACTED that way :)
StupiesCuz: I think drinking and trying to get laid (which he
didn't really)
was the opposite of him wanting to be a kid again.
SadIdLady: yeah, that's a given
StupiesCuz: or still
AntiUtopia: right, that's why I pointed that out.
AntiUtopia: he wasn't Mr. Innocence either.
StupiesCuz: His uhm... contradicting qualities or something.
SLorra0407: but he was even disgusted with that behavior - he just
didn't
know what to do with
AstroMan60: Jim are you saying any Teen with money would get drunk
and try to
get laid?
StupiesCuz: Is anyone here an English major? <grin>
SLorra0407: himself when he did have time. freedom to do what he
wanted
AstroMan60: <~~would like to be
AntiUtopia: Most of the ones I have known would. The Males, that
is.
AntiUtopia: ALL my friends in HS were just like that.
SadIdLady: pretty much Astro.. unless teenage boys have changed a
lot
SLorra0407: NONE of my friends in HS were like that :D
AstroMan60: <~~is male and does not want that. . .i am against
drinking and
smoking for that matter
StupiesCuz: Astro, it's somewhat of a stereotype..
AntiUtopia: eh, I'm an ENGLISH Major, I'm afraid :)
AntiUtopia: good Astro. You are the exception.
SLorra0407: everyone throw stones LOL!
AntiUtopia: I knew people like you in HS too.
StupiesCuz: Are you really? <takes two steps back>
AstroMan60: i love being the exception
SLorra0407: Actually, Astro, I suspect you aren't the exception
:)
AntiUtopia: but they were rare.
SadIdLady: very rare
AntiUtopia: not in my area, that is all.
SadIdLady: very, very rare
AntiUtopia: out of ten friends I had, maybe one fit that category.
AstroMan60: yes i am, i dumped my last g/f when i found out she
had been
drinking one night
StupiesCuz: I don't have any male friends that drink and smoke, in
fact none
do..
SadIdLady: good for you, Astro (the mother in me speaking)
StupiesCuz: Hmm..
AntiUtopia: the book, the book! :)
StupiesCuz: Does anyone find anything in common between Seymour
and Salinger
himself?
AstroMan60: what book what book?
SLorra0407: I would argue where I went to HS, only about 10%
actually wanted
that
AntiUtopia: HA
AntiUtopia: good Slorra.
AntiUtopia: THE BOOK.
StupiesCuz: *the* book? oooo...
SLorra0407: yes sir <saluting> LOL
AntiUtopia: heh :)
AstroMan60: Which Book? do you have any idea how many books there
are in this
world of yours?
SLorra0407: good, astro, very good :D
AntiUtopia: ANYWAYS :) Hard for me to compare Seymour with
salinger without
knowing Sal...
StupiesCuz: He's an English major, sheesh.. Astro..
AntiUtopia: I've died and gone to hell...
AntiUtopia: :)
SLorra0407: Tell me about Seymour?
SadIdLady: LOL
StupiesCuz: Well..
AstroMan60: MWA HA HA HA!!!
AntiUtopia: Alright, since we're talking Seymour, let's talk Nine
Stories.
AntiUtopia: A Perfect day for Bananafish.
StupiesCuz: Seymour even sounds like Salinger.. both begin and end
with the
same letters
AntiUtopia: BTW, This is turning out to be a great chat :)
SLorra0407: oh dear, let's not get quite that simple
AntiUtopia: Very Punny :)
SadIdLady: have mercy
AstroMan60: Have not Read Nine Stories
SLorra0407: me either
StupiesCuz: Did anyone catch that when Seymour said "They got
banana fever
and died".. he was sort of projecting
AntiUtopia: Ok, in A Perfect Day for Bananafish, Seymour is on his
honeymoon
AntiUtopia: right, Cuz :)
AntiUtopia: and at the end of the story puts a bullet in his head.
SLorra0407: eeewww. .. why?
StupiesCuz: And the feet comment hadn't much to do with the bullet
AntiUtopia: This is a big deal, because Seymour was the spiritual
head of the
family
StupiesCuz: SL, you didn't know?
AntiUtopia: That is the question, Sheridan :)
AntiUtopia: why?
SLorra0407: sorry, I haven't gotten to this book yet
AstroMan60: nor have i
AstroMan60: BRB
Sept 26 45: what is all your people's take on the incident in the
elavator?
StupiesCuz: Oh.. we just ruined the ending for you..
AntiUtopia: It's a very important even because it effected the
whole family,
and all other
AntiUtopia: glass stories make reference to it somehow, pretty
much
SLorra0407: no, it's okay. It won't ruin it, just make me want to
crash your
chat and put y'all behind
JediMars: doesn't he kill himself because he's too happy?
SLorra0407: next time :)
AntiUtopia: ugh, EVENT, because..
StupiesCuz: hehe, SL
AntiUtopia: right, that's what Buddy thought, Jedi.
AstroMan60: Too happy? HMMMMm no such thing
StupiesCuz: I don't think that's true..
AntiUtopia: in the story, the bananafish eat too many bananas and
die
StupiesCuz: When Seymour made that comment about Muriel "could be
any one of
a thousand places" he seemed not to know or care where she was
AntiUtopia: and Seymour is wearing a YELLOW robe
StupiesCuz: Oh, Jim, that's so relevant..
Sept 26 45: it's yellow?
AntiUtopia: right, it seemed like he was avoiding Muriel.
AntiUtopia: yep
SLorra0407: hmmmm, sounds like a story begging to be analyzed
AntiUtopia: he was a big banana:)
StupiesCuz: I'd hate to die in a yellow robe.
SadIdLady: lol Cuz
AntiUtopia: I'm afraid that's happening. And the play on his name
AntiUtopia: See More Glass.
AntiUtopia: that's what the kid said.
StupiesCuz: Oooh, wait, that is relevant, I hadn't noticed
JediMars: i thought he was the bananafish
AstroMan60: <~~hate to be caught wearing Banana yellow
AntiUtopia: right. That's what I think.
Sept 26 45: so why did he snip at the lady in the elevator...?
StupiesCuz: Hmm...
AntiUtopia: he was acting like a child, trying to deal with her on
that level
AntiUtopia: that's what I thought.
StupiesCuz: Yes, like he had with Sybil..
AntiUtopia: it was like the teasing he did with the girl on the
beach
AntiUtopia: right, the young girl.
StupiesCuz: Did anyone find that Sybil and Muriel had very
parallel lives?
Sept 26 45: but what is his fascination with feet?
AntiUtopia: hmmm...
AntiUtopia: he kissed Sybil on the foot...
Sept 26 45: and grabbed her ankles
StupiesCuz: For example.. both spoke of fathers who never
appeared, not
talked about suburn and
AntiUtopia: said the lady that walked into the elevator was
looking at his
feet.
StupiesCuz: sun lotion as well as the piano.. (one being jealous
the other
seeing him play)
AntiUtopia: hmmm....
AntiUtopia: that's interesting, never noticed that...
StupiesCuz: not? uhm... forget that not in front of talked about
sunburn
StupiesCuz: Also..
AstroMan60: SL are you confusd?
StupiesCuz: Seymour is the only man in the story who actually
appears...
AntiUtopia: yeah...
AntiUtopia: that's true too.
StupiesCuz: Even the elevator person was a female, which in
Salinger's times
was unusual
SLorra0407: not too bad. I just wish I'd read the book. It
sounds
fascinating and VERY different from
SLorra0407: Catcher
AntiUtopia: you're right :)
AntiUtopia: it is VERY different. TOTALLY different.
AntiUtopia: Mabye some Glass family background would be
appropriate?
StupiesCuz: it is, SL.. most people read Catcher and some are
disappointed
with it and don't give 9 Stories a try
Sept 26 45: so what's with the feet...does he have a fetish?
AntiUtopia: Seymour is the oldest child, the next oldest was Buddy
AntiUtopia: I have to think about that a bit, I don't know what
the feet may
mean.
StupiesCuz: Then there is Boo Boo
StupiesCuz: and Franny and Zooey
AntiUtopia: Buddy was an author and "wrote" the stories about
Seymour
AntiUtopia: and Walt is older than F and Z
JediMars: and Waker
StupiesCuz: Right, there is Walt too..
StupiesCuz: And Waker..
AntiUtopia: Yeah, Waker and Walt were twins, right?
Sept 26 45: Why does Seymour think Sybil's bathing suit is blue?
JediMars: yup
StupiesCuz: G-m bazillion kids they had
SLorra0407: geesh, talk about a lot of kids!
AntiUtopia: yep :)
AntiUtopia: all very intelligent,
AstroMan60: AHHHH to many kids
AntiUtopia: all on the radio.
StupiesCuz: Walt and Waker went almost unmentioned
AntiUtopia: I think Seymour was just teasing Sybil about the color
of her
suit.
StupiesCuz: They make me think of Disney and Texas
AntiUtopia: Yeah, they aren't developed as much.
AntiUtopia: heh :)
StupiesCuz: What was the real colour of it?
AstroMan60: i'm going to have to read it now to get my mind
organized
AntiUtopia: eh....lemme check...
JediMars: yellow
Sept 26 45: do u think he said that so she would move closer to
him to see
the suit?
StupiesCuz: Oh it was yellow... <just read
AntiUtopia: yep
AntiUtopia: canary yellow.
StupiesCuz: I think that perhaps he wanted to deny that it was
yellow?
AntiUtopia: like a bananafish :)
AntiUtopia: or a banana
AntiUtopia: I think he was just teashing her :)
AntiUtopia: now I have a lihsp :)
StupiesCuz: Right..
StupiesCuz: <nod>
SLorra0407: :)
Sept 26 45: a lithsp?
AntiUtopia: yaf. a lihsp.
StupiesCuz: That's an interesting todbit..
AntiUtopia: right. There's a lot going on in this story...
StupiesCuz: tidbit too.. ergh
AntiUtopia: but it seems hard to come up with definite answers :)
Sept 26 45: the colors mean somethin..the feet mean somethin..the
tree means
sumthin....sheeeesh
AntiUtopia: none of us can type, that's ok :)
StupiesCuz: Glass is almost an anagram of Salinger
AntiUtopia: right, and we can't say for sure what any of it means.
StupiesCuz: I fit right in <grin>
SLorra0407: all spelling error are the fault of aol and should not
be
corrected by chat members
AntiUtopia: haw haw :)
SLorra0407: I remember reading that in the new TOS rules ;D
AntiUtopia: Shure slorrit
AntiUtopia: heh :)
SLorra0407: If you call me slaw, I'm giving you a knuckle
sandwich!
StupiesCuz: Ooh, how obnoxious when your boss IMs you when you are
talking
about good old Salinger.
Sept 26 45: i think Seymour had tried to drive around the tree so
he would
disappear like the tigers did
AntiUtopia: Ok, anyways, Seymour and Buddy made all their younger
siblings
read voraciously,
AntiUtopia: and read heavily--eastern philosophy, etc.
AntiUtopia: and Seymour was the most looked up to.
AntiUtopia: when he killed himself, that left everyone flat,
wondering What
the heck was going on
StupiesCuz: Zooey wasn't too fond of it, was he?
AstroMan60: Voraciously? Jim please use smaller words remember
school has not
started yet my mind is out of order
SLorra0407: voraciously is a FUN word though
AntiUtopia: Yeah, I think the younger siblings resented all that
pushing on
some level.
StupiesCuz: You can make wicked anagrams out of it <grin>
AntiUtopia: heh :) Sorry astro. Ruh roah :)
SLorra0407: lol, Cuz!
AntiUtopia: haw haw.
StupiesCuz: And all the glass siblings were on a radio show...
AntiUtopia: right, It's a Wonderful Child or something like that.
AntiUtopia: Child prodigys
JediMars: wise child:)
AntiUtopia: Zooey and Franny were actors, as was Mom.
AntiUtopia: there ya go, It's a Wise Child :)
StupiesCuz: Yeah...
AntiUtopia: thanks Jedi :)
JediMars: sure:)
AntiUtopia: That's a big deal too. Children seem to be elevated
in Salinger's works,
Sept 26 45: i'm lost...was the glass family fictional?
StupiesCuz: The kids never called their parents "mom" and "dad"
too..
AstroMan60: I live in an anti utopia (oops sorry for getting off
track)
AntiUtopia: yep, but the way Salinger handled them you'd think
they weren't
:)
StupiesCuz: Yes Sept. Salinger's main work was creating and
evolving the
Glass family
AntiUtopia: he definitely crosses some lines :)
Sept 26 45: does Salinger have any siblings?
AntiUtopia: I don't know :)
JediMars: a sister i think
StupiesCuz: <is Salinger's sibling
StupiesCuz: :)
Sept 26 45: where does he live today?
SLorra0407: lol cuz! Are you really sure you wann be?
AntiUtopia: somewhere in NY
AstroMan60: don't live a lie Holden will hate you ;-)
AntiUtopia: upstate, I think.
StupiesCuz: he's a recluse in New Hampshire I think..
AntiUtopia: yeah, he is definitely a recluse
JediMars: i thought cornish, new hampshire
AntiUtopia: that's right.
AntiUtopia: JEEZ thank God for Jedi :)
Sept 26 45: has he changed his name..or what?...he may be in here
right now!!
AntiUtopia: SOMEONE has to know the details :)
JediMars: :)
StupiesCuz: Sure Jim... NY, NH.. same darn thing
AntiUtopia: I vote for Jedi :)
AntiUtopia: to me it is :)
AntiUtopia: heh :)
SLorra0407: er, not at all, cuz
AstroMan60: Jedi are you by chance Salinger in disguise?
SLorra0407: VERY different
AntiUtopia: hmmm...nope, she's too nice :)
StupiesCuz: SL, don't have to tell me, I live in NY.
JediMars: nope:)
StupiesCuz: Jedi, are you female?
AstroMan60: are you sure check one more time
StupiesCuz: Because if you are..
JediMars: yeah
StupiesCuz: it would explain the whole Salinger drag thing we
talked about
earlier..
AntiUtopia: Alright, then, why did Seymour kill himself?
AntiUtopia: OH GAWD CUZ :)
StupiesCuz: hehe :)
AntiUtopia: So Jedi is Anne Rice :)
Sept 26 45: the war screwed him up
SLorra0407: lol! your words come back to haunt you
AntiUtopia: happens all the time :)
AntiUtopia: OH, one question guys, can I send this chat as an
e-mail to the
AntiUtopia: JD Salinger listserve?
AstroMan60: i don't care
AntiUtopia: does anyone mind?
StupiesCuz: Give us a minute to consider considering, please, Jim.
AntiUtopia: ok :)
AntiUtopia: I do post all our chats to the boards :)
StupiesCuz: Hmm.. I often think of Salinger as expressing himself
through
Seymour.
AntiUtopia: send them to Congress.
AntiUtopia: Publish them in the New York Times.
AntiUtopia: but other than that...
StupiesCuz: Congress! Whoo.. hit the big time.
Sept 26 45: salinger expresses himself in all his work
SLorra0407: great, next we'll all be asked to do dna testing
SLorra0407: Jim are you sure you can stand up to that?
AntiUtopia: Right, that's the thing. A lot of people identify
Salinger with
Buddy,
StupiesCuz: That's true, Sept, but more so, it seems, through
Seymour.
AntiUtopia: cause Buddy's an author.
JediMars: buddy and salinger have a lot in common
Sept 26 45: holden is definetly salinger
AntiUtopia: eh....I don't have DNA, Sheridan :)
StupiesCuz: How do you know, Sept?
SLorra0407: I knew it! You aren't human!
Sept 26 45: well..definetly in my mind
AntiUtopia: hehehehehehhhhh :)
AntiUtopia: Any more ideas on Catcher or Bananafish?
StupiesCuz: Why, though, Sept?
Sept 26 45: because when u create a character...it's you..no
matter how hard
u don't want it to be....
StupiesCuz: We are idealists with ideas and idols and idioms
AntiUtopia: that's true, Sept.
StupiesCuz: Ah, it's only partially true..
SLorra0407: hem, can I come back and compare them at the next
chat? Will
y'all mind if I make you rehash it?
AntiUtopia: heh, good un, Cuz.
StupiesCuz: Sometimes your writing can only mean you were shaken
too hard as
a baby
AntiUtopia: yeah--the rest of the truth is that a writer expresses
himself
through ALL his characters.
SLorra0407: ya think, Cuz? :)
StupiesCuz: Of course we mind, what do you think we gather here
for, to talk
about Salinger or something
AntiUtopia: Mr. Antolini was critical of Holden, so that means
Salinger was
too.
AntiUtopia: compare away, Slorra :)
SLorra0407: well, since I'm behind and all. If you're going to
get
impatient... :)
StupiesCuz: Well, I definitely agree and will defend the point
that an author
expresses himself through
StupiesCuz: his characters, but not 100% percent
AntiUtopia: Next chat, Bananafish and Uncle Wiggly in Connecticut
SLorra0407: why not 100%, Cuz?
StupiesCuz: Sometimes the readers pick up on the wrong things..
Sept 26 45: when Anti?
SadIdLady: two weeks, right?
StupiesCuz: Jim, how are we on schedule? Are we completely ruining
it?
AntiUtopia: two weeks from tonight, everyone here is on the
mailing list :)
AntiUtopia: tis right :)
AntiUtopia: We are right on schedule.
StupiesCuz: Why don't we do this every Friday?
SLorra0407: but how the readers interpret has nothing to do with
the writer's
expression
AntiUtopia: cause my wife would KILL me :)
Sept 26 45: the reader picks up whatever his/her experiences lead
him to
beleive
AntiUtopia: if you want to use a text to get back to the author,
that's one thing.
SadIdLady: cause I have Steinbeck group on the other friday
StupiesCuz: SL, how you intepret, though, changes your view of the
writer's
expression
SadIdLady: and it's hard to schedule weekly
Sept 26 45: my paper is due on mon...i'll let u guys know how i do
AntiUtopia: if you just want to get something out of a text,
that's another.
AntiUtopia: Yeah, that would be cool, Sept :)
SLorra0407: true, but it has nothing to do with the author's
original intent
AntiUtopia: the author's original intent is always unknown,
sometimes even to
the author himself.
Sept 26 45: sometimes the author has no intent at all
AntiUtopia: right.
AntiUtopia: some authors say that about their work.
StupiesCuz: SL, you dont know the author's original intent.. your
perception
of it is the original intent
AntiUtopia: In literary crit that's called the intentional fallacy
SLorra0407: oh dear, I didn't mean to go there :)
AntiUtopia: but that doesn't mean a text can mean anything we want
it to mean
:)
AntiUtopia: you got that right :)
StupiesCuz: Jim, the text means what you think it means.. the text
does not
have a particular meaning
StupiesCuz: like a color can be red and nothing else..
StupiesCuz: Here I go with my analogies..
AntiUtopia: not one meaning, but a limited range of meanings.
Sept 26 45: a text can mean anything we want it to mean...it was
written for
the authors..and the reader's enjoyment.
SLorra0407: I would disagree with you, 'cuz... and please don't
start the
logic arguments :)
AntiUtopia: so, can I take your text to mean, Sept, that every
text has only
one possible meaning?
Sept 26 45: no..the opposite
AntiUtopia: but that's how I want your text to mean :)
AntiUtopia: that's how I take it :)
AntiUtopia: is that accurate?
AntiUtopia: can I say that truthfully>
AntiUtopia: ?
StupiesCuz: The wheels on a bus go round and round, round and
round...
AstroMan60: Ahh one point for the english major
SLorra0407: you're being evil :)
StupiesCuz: Jim means he is mean :)
AstroMan60: Sl that is what english majors are EVIL
AntiUtopia: my misinterpretation of Sept's statement was outside
the range of
meaning of her statement
AntiUtopia: red is never yellow.
SLorra0407: Oh! Thanks for clearing that up Astro
Sept 26 45: you should take what u want from a text..don't let
others
opinions sway your interpretations
AntiUtopia: uh...
StupiesCuz: And thanks for clearing *that* up, Jim.
StupiesCuz: We would have never known... that red... is actually
never
yellow.
SLorra0407: Yes, but what I see as red, may be what you see as
yellow. We
have no way of knowing, so
AntiUtopia: I'm not saying there's only ONE meaning for a piece of
literature,
AntiUtopia: you need to read Wittgenstien, Sheridan :)
StupiesCuz: Sept, what are you, a solipsist?
SLorra0407: in that sense I guess y'all are right, but the author
did have an
intent at some point
SLorra0407: a meaning, at any rate for his story
SLorra0407: It's on the list, Jim, along with everything else :)
AntiUtopia: **A** meaning, or just meaning?
Sept 26 45: his intent was to sell a million books
AntiUtopia: heh :)
AntiUtopia: there ya go Sept :0
SLorra0407: not necessarily, Sept. :)
AntiUtopia: :)
AstroMan60: $$$$$$$$
SadIdLady: and I need to read Dubus.. so I'm going to head out.
SLorra0407: Some of us don't write for money
AntiUtopia: alright, thanks for coming Trish :)
AntiUtopia: this was a fun chat :)
StupiesCuz: Some of us don't buy for money.. uh.. I mean..
Sept 26 45: the ones with publishers do
AstroMan60: nite Trish
AntiUtopia: heh :)
SadIdLady: see you all later, have a nice nite :)
StupiesCuz: Night Sad
AntiUtopia: you too :)
SLorra0407: night Trish :)
SadIdLady: nite Jim, everyone
AntiUtopia: keep that humor coming :)
AntiUtopia: thanks :)
StupiesCuz: Anyhow..
StupiesCuz: Bananafish!
SLorra0407: that sounds like a fun swear word :D
StupiesCuz: You goddam bananafish!
StupiesCuz: hehe..
AntiUtopia: I would say texts are capable of multiple meanings,
but some
meanings are more valid than'
AstroMan60: OHHHH BANANAFISH!!!!
AntiUtopia: others
AntiUtopia: some interpretations, that is.
SLorra0407: sounds very satisfying. And looks satisfying too :)
StupiesCuz: I think once you read a text it become subjective.
SLorra0407: And that's an example of interpretation
AntiUtopia: nothing like a banana on a hot summer's night :)
AntiUtopia: eh...
StupiesCuz: Someone else telling you what they think it means --
shouldn't
mean much to you
AntiUtopia: what did I just say?
Sept 26 45: what is seymour ultimately trying to teach Sybil?
AntiUtopia: I would say to be kind...
AstroMan60: i think i'll go get a banana right now brb
SLorra0407: you said you were bananas, Jim? :D
AntiUtopia: not poke the dog with a stick, etc.
AntiUtopia: eh... :)
StupiesCuz: I think I'll go get a fish
Sept 26 45: why does he tell the banafish story?
AntiUtopia: there are subjective and objective elements to
reading.
AstroMan60: OH BANANAFISH!! were out of bananas
AntiUtopia: that's a good question, Sept.
StupiesCuz: I think he tells it as a joke, but also to say that
some of them
died
Sept 26 45: i have a brown banana here
SLorra0407: very good question, Sept. and keep going Jim
AntiUtopia: take too much in and you drown.
AntiUtopia: make a shake out of it, Sept :0
AntiUtopia: :)
AstroMan60: E-mail it to me i'm hungry for a banana
StupiesCuz: Split it, I say
SLorra0407: oh, yes, we have no banananas. we have no bananas
today :D
Sept 26 45: i think it was seymours way of tellin Sybil about
himself..and
the war
AstroMan60: SL LOL
AntiUtopia: ooh, now that's good, Sept :)
SLorra0407: my dad's favorite song
AntiUtopia: I think we have ONE banana, Sheridan :)
SLorra0407: but that dosen't fit in the song
AntiUtopia: Remember the Banana Splits?
Sept 26 45: there is a band out there called bananafish
AstroMan60: did it suddenly get dark here or is it just me?
AntiUtopia: I think everyone here is too young...
AntiUtopia: sigh :)
StupiesCuz: I think Seymour had an obsessive compulsive disorder
with
cleanness..
SLorra0407: gee, are you the old man here?
AstroMan60: And he said let there be light
SLorra0407: grandpa LOL
AntiUtopia: Where's trish when I need her :)
AstroMan60: and there wasn't
AntiUtopia: eh...I'm 34.
AstroMan60: hmmmm
StupiesCuz: i like banana splits :0
Sept 26 45: me 2!
SLorra0407: we know :)
AntiUtopia: really?
StupiesCuz: Well, I brought it up anyhow.
AntiUtopia: so do you remember the Banana Splits on TV. :)
StupiesCuz: Really what, Jim?
AstroMan60: i think i need to go to the ice cream shop down the
street
AntiUtopia: tell me about it :0
StupiesCuz: Banana splits from Leave it to Beaver episodes
AntiUtopia: really is Sept also 34?
Sept 26 45: actually...my fav ice cream is Ben & Jerry's Chunky
Monkey..
unky Monkey
StupiesCuz: Oh.. okay.. I don't know if she is..
SLorra0407: then what does the date mean, sept?
AntiUtopia: I like Cherry Garcia.
Sept 26 45: banana ice cream/fudge/walnuts
Sept 26 45: yummy
AntiUtopia: allergic to nuts. Ironic :)
StupiesCuz: I'm allergic to Jerry Garcia.
AntiUtopia: and the vanilla is almost intoxicating :)
AstroMan60: Jim you're allegic to me?
SLorra0407: gee, then mine is boring.. I like Oreo.. Yes, it is
Jim :)
AntiUtopia: heh :)
Sept 26 45: date of a special birth
AntiUtopia: ah.
AstroMan60: who's?
AstroMan60: ?
Sept 26 45: mum's!
AstroMan60: cool
AntiUtopia: cool :) very sweet.
SLorra0407: aha! yeah, that is cool
Sept 26 45: my late mum's...
StupiesCuz: There is a conversation stopper. Sorry to hear that,
Sept. :\
AntiUtopia: yep. but very nice of you to do that.
StupiesCuz: It's a nice way to honour her :)
AntiUtopia: very nice, yes.
Sept 26 45: it's ok..it's been 2 years.
StupiesCuz: <nods to Jim> <g>
SLorra0407: wow, though. She was still very young. I'm sorry Sept.
AntiUtopia: right, just over 40
Sept 26 45: yes...almost 51
AntiUtopia: too young.
AntiUtopia: oops :)
SLorra0407: well, we know he wasn't a math major :)
AntiUtopia: I'm an English major. I can't add :)
Sept 26 45: lol
StupiesCuz: lol SL
AntiUtopia: still too young, tho.
AstroMan60: don't worry this ain't a math test
AntiUtopia: good thing :)
SLorra0407: thank goodness. I'd have run like mad
StupiesCuz: Hmm... does "A perfect day for bananafish"
theoretically mean..
"a perfect day to shoot yourself"?
Sept 26 45: and my birthday is this monday...anniversary of
Diana's
death...sheesh
AstroMan60: HMMMM
AntiUtopia: it almost seems like it...
AntiUtopia: happy Birthday Sept :)
AstroMan60: Happy b-day
Sept 26 45: thnx
StupiesCuz: yeah, Happy birthday, Sept.. mine just passed :)
SLorra0407: if the argument was that he was too happy, things were
too
perfect, then that would fit
SLorra0407: happy birthday Sept :)
AstroMan60: Happy B-day Cuz
AntiUtopia: that was what Buddy said about Seymour.
Sept 26 45: happy belated
AntiUtopia: good observation, Sheridan.
SLorra0407: and Cuz
StupiesCuz: After telling Sybil about himself... Seymour tells her
to watch
out for the bananafish today
JediMars: the perfect day is when the bananafish dies
AntiUtopia: yeah....
AntiUtopia: and they die by eating too many bananas.
StupiesCuz: Thanks, btw, for boithday wishies :)
SLorra0407: so, ostensibly, they die happy?
StupiesCuz: Good point, SL
AntiUtopia: happy bd cuz :)
AntiUtopia: i would think so. But isn't suicide by happiness kind
of odd?
AntiUtopia: Why?
SLorra0407: gee, and I haven't even read the stroy :)
StupiesCuz: Hmm... or maybe they overeat and are "drowned out" by
bananas?
SLorra0407: not necessarily, Jim
AntiUtopia: PLEASE help me out here then :) It is odd to me :)
StupiesCuz: Maybe he wasn't able to deal with happiness?
AntiUtopia: I can understand that.
AstroMan60: not odd at all
AntiUtopia: And looking waaay ahead, Teddy said it's hard to be
spiritual in
America
StupiesCuz: The bunch of us are odd, we shouldn't have trouble
understanding odd things
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