Subject: Re: Basketball with the Big Boys [was RE: Words, words, words]
erespess@nji.com
Date: Tue Jan 25 2000 - 14:26:51 EST
Paul Kennedy wrote:
> > Even Scottie--who's the biggest boy I know--goes out of his way,
> > from time to time, to welcome fry (is that the correct monniker for younger
> > fishes?) and commend their honest efforts at communication.
> >We're all among friends. There's no reason to be intimidated.
And then Tim replied:
>I can't second this strongly enough. I think this calls for a top-hat
>and cigar stub of endorsement!
Saying that there is no reason to be intimidated sort of discounts
that some people do feel exactly that way, I would guess more than
the ones who muster up enough nerve to speak up anyway. The folks
who do speak up are already on their way to dealing with the feeling
of intellectual inferiority that they might experience. Only after
being here long enough to get to know people and let them get to know
you can you feel "among friends." And that usually doesn't happen
until after the first couple of rounds of attacks.
The phrase used about feeling like the "neighborhood girl getting in
and playing basketball with the big boys" is no joke. I'm so glad
Becky brought that up (thank you, Becky). That is a very significant
psychological phenomenon that most (maybe not all) women experience
as a part of growing up. Sometimes over and over again. Some of us
1) learn to accept it and find ways to cope with it in order to work
around it confidently. Some of us 2) give up and never try to have
these kinds of exchanges. Others of us, probably most, are 3)
somewhere in between - sometimes feeling very confident, sometimes
completely chickening out, and other times not being so sure but
throwing our hats into the ring anyway.
This is exactly why so many girls get lost in middle school. When
having this kind of intellectual dilemma, falling into a new
cultural role after developing a body that may be desired or
ridiculed (both being stress inducing options) makes many young women
too overwhelmed to meet the challenge.
Personally, I think I fall into the third category. Sometimes I love
the debates that sprout up on this list, and feel very invigorated by
them. Sometimes I'm hesitant, feeling certain that my posts will be
attacked, but gathering the courage to go ahead and get tossed around
anyway. Other times, I'd rather crawl in a hole and not read my mail
anymore until the thread has petered out. I worked EXTREMELY hard to
get here, too, and I'm not even in the confident category.
I'm certain that men have their own forms of this kind of insecurity
to deal with. I have a sense that it is dealt with at an earlier age
with boys, so that whatever embarrassment he experiences might be
more constructive than paralyzing. But I don't know. I've never
been a boy.
Paul also said:
> > I'm not enormously familiar with the culture of lists... But if
> >anybody is engaged in such distinctions, let me say that I'd like to be on
> >the girls' team.
It's not just lists. I think any academic environment brings up this
issue. In these types of environment, especially where academians
(new word?) are present, there is an enormous gap in experience of
researching and presenting one's ideas, and consequently being
prepared to defend those ideas. When not familiar with this aspect
of academic culture, it can make a person who is not accustomed to
this practice feel very wary of jumping in.
And thanks for being on my team. 8)
Tim went on to say:
>What bothers me most of all -- and bothers me not because I think it's
>wrong but because I think it makes the posting person too
>self-dismissive -- is when someone say something like:
>
> I think this is where I was, but oh well, whatever,
> I probably don't know what I'm talking about.
>
>Don't undersell yourself. There are enough landmines in the world that
>you don't have to construct your own personal field of them.
Tim is so right here. Learning to be in your own corner, prepared to
defend yourself (even if only to yourself) is so crucial. If you can
do that, no matter how hard someone comes down on you or what you've
written, at least you have yourself to fall back on.
The only disagreement I have with what Tim said here probably wasn't
his intent and just a misreading on my part, but here goes anyway.
Tim, you said "there are enough landmines in the world that you don't
have to construct your own personal field of them". I don't think we
construct them, we learn them before we understand difference between
what we are and what others say we are. When you see or hear women
saying such a thing, I see it as sign of progress. At least she is
not letting that belief about herself keep her from saying it anyway,
and that is an important step. The next step is to learn not to
justify what she believes.
That was very difficult for me to learn, and it probably still slips
out sometimes anyway.
But the thing is, maybe I AM wrong. I won't know it until I give my
opinion enough validity to actually look at it and question it.
Then, if I need to learn more, I can do that.
This post is probably more about the psyche of young women than any
of you were expecting, but I thought it was important to say. I
think it is extremely on topic, as it address something that many
list members face (I would guess).
Maybe this can help make some sense of it.
Elizabeth
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