Subject: Re: Music, religion, etc.
AntiUtopia@aol.com
Date: Sun Jan 09 2000 - 08:09:36 EST
In a message dated 1/9/00 5:52:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, shok@netcom.com
writes:
<<
Thanks for the summary, but I hadn't missed that. And in the end, she
never announced a change in her Atheism. And incidentally, the movie
was adapted from a novel written by Carl Sagan, noted astronomer,
scientist, rational person, nice guy, and perhaps one of the most
blatantly and forwardly Atheist individuals from the past century.
cheers,
-robbie >>
I'm not sure that our discussion can progress much further than where it's
come to, because what seems to me to be happening is that we're interpreting
the data in the light of our respective beliefs, not arguing from common
ground. No progress is possible. I could easily go tit for tat on all your
points, amassing more and more documentation, but we'd never progress beyond
this impasse despite our mutual efforts. We've already come to the point
where I want to refer to previous statements I made in response to your
present comments, and that's a bad sign.
I don't feel you're replying to the essence of my comments -- especially
regarding a priori beliefs. You affirm that you hold to the veracity of your
physical senses, but there's a great deal of scientific evidence to lead you
to doubt them, at least at times. But still, you hold to this belief. I,
like you, agree that it is a plausible belief. My point is that the holding
of a priori beliefs is necessary to Think At All, not a sign of an irrational
thought construct -- and therefore, religious faith isn't inherently
irrational **on this basis.**
I have Robert Solomon's Introduction to Philosophy. You may want to check it
out.
No one I know believes in God because it is necessary to account for the
existence of the physical universe. This seems like a moot point to me.
I do want to respond, however, to your Contact points.
You're right in that she didn't change from being an Atheist, but I did feel
there was a change in her outlook.
Carl Sagan does appear to be in "your camp," so to speak, but at the same
time there's a thoroughly religious quality to his philosophy. The opening
line of Cosmos was, "The cosmos is all that is or was or ever shall be" (a
completely unscientific statement in that it could never be demonstrated
using the Scientific Method), and near the end what you have is a cosmology
spoken of in Vedic (ie religious terms).
So I wouldn't cite Sagan as too much of a materialist here :) Again (and
remember the context I've provided for this statement), I've never seen a
completely consistent Atheist...
Jim
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