Subject: RE: ivory tower Digression of sorts . . .
From: lray (lray@centenary.edu)
Date: Thu Jul 19 2001 - 04:56:30 GMT
Of course America isn't perfect and I have given up hope for Bush Jr. as
well(if ever I had any), but you still mostly miss my point. The US may
censor things, but that does not mean that ALL of its people agree with its
policies. Unfortunately in this country the powerful tend to be the wealthy
as well and their wealth is the cause of the former. The country "by the
people" seems to no longer be so because politicians often have so to say
"bought" their positions. You generalize about a people that are caught up in
something they have little control over.
As far as religion goes in relation to all this, it is the backbone of
conservative America (which is currently on top with Bush and the Republican
Congress). So it is easy to understand here why censorship and conservatives
are related.
If this had made any sense PLEASE, I beg of you, stop generalizing about a
people. Speak all you want about the US's politicians and its powerful and
the ruining of a country but do not speak about its people as a whole. For
when you do you generalize about me and the many many many people I know that
you are definitely wrong about and who notice and are trying to do something
about it all. It is late and I am tired so forgive me if this has made little
sense.
Levi
>===== Original Message From "zazie" <zazie@Raketnet.nl> =====
>Of course I generalized a bit, but my question whether 'Americans are dumb'
>arose from some people considering watering down the Narnia books, which
>are really not that difficult. I admit that observation was wrong, it
>wasn't watering down but more of a re-edit so as to reach a wider audience.
>Curiously enough, it was the Christian element which Disney seems to want
>to take out, and this in the most religious country in the Western world.
>Very strange.
>
>But this American tradition of censoring pop culture may not be as long
>established as elsewhere, but since the Hayes-code, it is certainly the
>strongest in the world. There too, the US, excels.
>
>And, if you really read my email to you, you've noticed that actually the
>Americans i've met personally, were profound people.
>
>It's just the ones with power that seem to be ignorant.
>
>About your election: Did you read that like 80 % of the overseas ballots
>were actually not valid? Cool, eh? These days, America IS a banana republic
>..
>To tell you the thruth, I'm numbed by all what dubya is saying is doing,
>i'm giving up, i don't care anymore ...
>
>--------------------Origineel bericht--------------------
>The president of the US may reflect on all of us Americans, however simply
>becasue Dubya is our president does not mean that we or I like him. You
>have
>to remember that he barely won the election and to some he actually lost.
>Go
>ahead and bash George Jr., I'll even join in until the FBI knocks on my
>door
>but he is an image and not much else. You deliver rather low blows to an
>entire country and ALL of its people based on what? I am well aware of the
>many problems the US has but so do many countries. A greater understanding
>of
>the problematic politcal spectrum in the US is maybe required to understand
>that yes he is our president but he may not be worth a damn. You say you
>wonder whether "Americans are dumb." Well, maybe the ones you have met and
>Dubya is definitely not the shining example of American intelligence but
>where
>you make you assumptions is beyond my understanding. Yup, they are
>assumptions and ya you have probably met some superficial and ignorant and
>dumb Americans but I've have met some real jerks from Europe but I don't
>judge
>the whole continent or any one country's people based on those few people.
>I
>don't think all Germans are gung-ho for ethnic cleansing because of the
>Holocaust and you shouldn't think that Americans are dumb because of our
>less
>than lots of things president. So to end, as someone on this list told me
>before, I really don't care to talk about this anymore or how "inferior"
>America is to European snobs like yourself because frankly I and most
>Americans have heard it before and I really don't give a damn.
>"outright
>stupidity on average" says Zazie - thats funny, it really is, you show your
>own judgemental self so wonderfully, maybe you should look in the mirror =)
>-Levi
>
>to the rest of the banafishers, i apologize for this rude email but i am
>tired
>of hearing about Europe v. the USA, no one is perfect and hopefully my
>future
>posts will be on much less controversial subjects and much nicer indeed. =)
>
>
>
>
>>===== Original Message From "zazie" <zazie@raketnet.nl> =====
>>Well, it's just that George Bush has been doing so many stupid egotistical
>>things lately, it kind of reflects on all of you.
>>And really, if there is ANYWHERE in America serious thought that relative
>>simple books like C.S. Lewis Narnia books are so "difficult" that anyone
>>who reads them is "in an ivory tower" yes, then I'm really wondering and
>>scared whether in general Americans are dumb. Ignorant, we knew that, with
>>a president who thinks that Belgium is the capital of Europe, what else can
>>we think? But outright stupidity on average, hmmm.
>>
>>All those nukes with such dumb people ... somebody should write a novel
>>about that.
>>
>>
>>=====================================================
>> Please don't visit my crappy homepage
>>
>>
>>
>>--------------------Origineel bericht--------------------
>>I am an American and the thought of editing a classic work and changing it
>>from its original form apalls me. It is true that the desire for the
>>"buck"
>>is all too present in American society and maybe this form of censorship
>>could
>>only happen in the U.S. However, genaralizing about the intelligence of
>>America and its people is rather uncalled for I think especially given the
>>people on this list.
>>A prideful young American who still thinks there is reason to be so,
>>Levi
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>===== Original Message From "zazie" <zazie@raketnet.nl> =====
>>>It's an honest question: edit out what is considered "offensive" so that
>>>more people have the opportunity to be exposed or sit up in your ivory
>>>tower with said book intact and listen to more generations of uninformed
>>>people try to tell you what the book is about?
>>>
>>>Is this because you live in America that talk of censoring is so easy?
>>>Wow, real wow, this is quite shocking! I'm not a christian anymore (i'm an
>>>atheist, but non-practising) but to take out religious parts of a book
>just
>>>to sell more books!?!?!
>>>Only in America, i think.
>>>A German writer (I think it was Bertold Brecht) once said about this, that
>>>the burning of books is the equivalent of burning people. This principle
>>>applies in part in this case, i think.
>>>On the thing about bigger audience vs. integrity, I fully agree with
>>>the argument that it wouldn't do any good. And that 'ivory tower'
>>>is not so high, in the case of CITR and Salnger, or the average
>>>American must be even more stupid than I thought. Please say it isn't so.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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