RE: Notes from the university bottom

Vonnegut is "classy" because he's unpretentious and real, and. unlike many
other names recently mentioned here, is not a boorish lout.
tina

>I have re-read this whole thing, what exactly, John O. are the
>qualifications that I am required to have before I can criticize? John O,
>this demand for qualifications, where does it come from, are the pros
>worried about the amateurs? Of course you would think Vonnegut is classy,
>he shares your values. But if classy is so important then it sure blunts
>some of what he has done. So, John, is mere intelligence the primary
>distinction of modern class? A genetic one? Some believe that criticism
>can be cutting as long as it is clever and clothed in intelligence but the
>uncouth mouth could make the same point with the same reasons on a
>different
>object yet class in Jim's character sense would not apply? Not all
>roughness is forthright but neither is all smoothness.
>
>Jim, I agree. Thanks for keeping us clear.
>
>Daniel
>
>
>
>I think Scottie's definition of "class" should be attended to a bit more.
>"Class" here is associated with long-time social/economic standing --
>"class" refers to a group of people, a "class" of people, with a certain
>social standing, a leftover of the aristocracy and landed nobility.
>Members
>of this class identify one another by paying close attention to specific
>verbal and eating habits, clothing styles, and body language. This is the
>primary definition of "class." It has nothing to do with personal
>character. A person can be a member of this class and be a sub-human piece
>of crap so far as character goes, but will always be a member of this
>class.
>
>If you think long enough, you'll see this type of thinking reflected in
>quite a bit of fiction in English. A truly worthy villain can't be from
>the
>lower classes. He has to be intelligent, educated, articulate. Even Lord
>Voldemort went to the same school as Harry Potter.
>
>As time went on those verbal and eating habits, clothing styles, and body
>language became identified with social etiquette (the middle class aping
>the
>habits of people with real money) and, by extension, with specific
>character
>traits. Having "class" now has to do with consideration, respect, or at
>the
>least a certain amount of style. This is the American defnition of class
>--
>being painfully democratic and not wanting to acknowledge social and
>economic distinctions between people, we now imagine "class" to be
>something
>internal rather than inherited by birth.
>
>Of course the old definition of class is still alive and well in US
>society.
>People with class just know better than to flout it.
>
>Jim
>
>Yocum Daniel GS 21 CES/CEOE wrote:
>
>
>John O., Class is nothing more than treating people with respect but it can
>be taken to far to mean station in life the difference just amounting to
>material possessions and how one earns his bread. Many of those who think
>they have class try to parlay it into social leverage while those they
>think
>have no class usually are those who are intimate with the labors that
>result
>in the sweat of the brow. Those who think they have class usually just
>have
>ornamentation. Now Vonnegut can be quite the ass which as far as I know is
>the opposite to class but hey who says that the popular notion of class
>really matters John O. the defender?
>Daniel
>
>And Daniel, who feels qualified to announce that Vonnegut has no class
>(which should convince anyone who had doubts that Vonnegut is as classy and
>responsible a writer as they come), also writes:
>
>"Class is like chalking your hands for a better grip but unchalked hands
>aren't that much less tacky just maybe more sweaty."
>
>And once again I feel compelled to point out that I have no idea what this
>means, but I suspect it is simply incoherent.
>
>
>--John
>
>
>

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Received on Wed Jul 9 14:03:31 2003