RE: Notes from the university bottom

Respectfully disagreeing, Daniel. Site your criteria. Mine is: the
articles he's written about topics such as America's shame over the ignoring
of Biafra, Africa's only democracy, (at the time), his honesty about his
private life, and how he respectfully distances himself from his fans
without pulling a JDS or any hostility. I could go on, but it's your turn.
I'd really like to know how you could so thoroughly dislike such a gentle
creature.
tina

>Tina, real? what makes him real as compared to the unreal? A boorish Lout.
>http://www.utne.com/pub/2003_117/promo/10513-1.html
>a class -act-.
>Daniel
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tina carson [mailto:tina_carson@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 12:03 PM
>To: bananafish@roughdraft.org
>Subject: RE: Notes from the university bottom
>
>
>Vonnegut is "classy" because he's unpretentious and real, and. unlike many
>other names recently mentioned here, is not a boorish lout.
>tina
>
> >I have re-read this whole thing, what exactly, John O. are the
> >qualifications that I am required to have before I can criticize? John
>O,
> >this demand for qualifications, where does it come from, are the pros
> >worried about the amateurs? Of course you would think Vonnegut is
>classy,
> >he shares your values. But if classy is so important then it sure blunts
> >some of what he has done. So, John, is mere intelligence the primary
> >distinction of modern class? A genetic one? Some believe that criticism
> >can be cutting as long as it is clever and clothed in intelligence but
>the
> >uncouth mouth could make the same point with the same reasons on a
> >different
> >object yet class in Jim's character sense would not apply? Not all
> >roughness is forthright but neither is all smoothness.
> >
> >Jim, I agree. Thanks for keeping us clear.
> >
> >Daniel
> >
> >
> >
> >I think Scottie's definition of "class" should be attended to a bit more.
> >"Class" here is associated with long-time social/economic standing --
> >"class" refers to a group of people, a "class" of people, with a certain
> >social standing, a leftover of the aristocracy and landed nobility.
> >Members
> >of this class identify one another by paying close attention to specific
> >verbal and eating habits, clothing styles, and body language. This is
>the
> >primary definition of "class." It has nothing to do with personal
> >character. A person can be a member of this class and be a sub-human
>piece
> >of crap so far as character goes, but will always be a member of this
> >class.
> >
> >If you think long enough, you'll see this type of thinking reflected in
> >quite a bit of fiction in English. A truly worthy villain can't be from
> >the
> >lower classes. He has to be intelligent, educated, articulate. Even
>Lord
> >Voldemort went to the same school as Harry Potter.
> >
> >As time went on those verbal and eating habits, clothing styles, and body
> >language became identified with social etiquette (the middle class aping
> >the
> >habits of people with real money) and, by extension, with specific
> >character
> >traits. Having "class" now has to do with consideration, respect, or at
> >the
> >least a certain amount of style. This is the American defnition of class
> >--
> >being painfully democratic and not wanting to acknowledge social and
> >economic distinctions between people, we now imagine "class" to be
> >something
> >internal rather than inherited by birth.
> >
> >Of course the old definition of class is still alive and well in US
> >society.
> >People with class just know better than to flout it.
> >
> >Jim
> >
> >Yocum Daniel GS 21 CES/CEOE wrote:
> >
> >
> >John O., Class is nothing more than treating people with respect but it
>can
> >be taken to far to mean station in life the difference just amounting to
> >material possessions and how one earns his bread. Many of those who
>think
> >they have class try to parlay it into social leverage while those they
> >think
> >have no class usually are those who are intimate with the labors that
> >result
> >in the sweat of the brow. Those who think they have class usually just
> >have
> >ornamentation. Now Vonnegut can be quite the ass which as far as I know
>is
> >the opposite to class but hey who says that the popular notion of class
> >really matters John O. the defender?
> >Daniel
> >
> >And Daniel, who feels qualified to announce that Vonnegut has no class
> >(which should convince anyone who had doubts that Vonnegut is as classy
>and
> >responsible a writer as they come), also writes:
> >
> >"Class is like chalking your hands for a better grip but unchalked hands
> >aren't that much less tacky just maybe more sweaty."
> >
> >And once again I feel compelled to point out that I have no idea what
>this
> >means, but I suspect it is simply incoherent.
> >
> >
> >--John
> >
> >
> >
>
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Received on Wed Jul 9 22:41:46 2003