Re: Revelations
Jim Rovira (jrovira@juno.com)
Tue, 06 Jul 1999 15:27:00 -0400
None of these really apply to Biblical prophecy. The stuff in Daniel,
for example, could not possibly be self fulfilling in any way, shape or
form. And the emphasis isn't upon the "facts" as they come about --
those facts are kinda taken for granted and in many cases aren't
observable to the generation that first received the prophecy. The
emphasis is usually upon their meaning. Daniel and Revelation are
especially shrewd analyses of human society and power structures.
Jim Rovira
Check out "Up Against the Wall" for links to numerous
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On Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:16:02 -0700 (PDT) Thor Cameron
<my_colours@hotmail.com> writes:
>First, I want to say that in this fabulous book called Holy Blood,
>Holy
>Grail, by Baigent, et al, they suggest, among a LOT of other things,
>that
>Nostradamus was not a prophet, he was a Freemason, it was all codes &
>info
>for those "in the know". The way they researched it, it seems to make
>a bit
>of sense.
>
>All right, so it looks like we're dealing with two things here.
>First, I
>guess this is more to the spirit of my first post, Prophecies Are
>Crap. OK,
>they're not real, then I can say anything I want & call it a prophecy.
>If, on the other hand, we can play that they're real, or at least that
>there
>can be such a real phenomena, then I think there are a few
>sub-categories
>here.
>
>1) Cassandra Complex: I know the future, spout it, but is disbelieved.
> I
>turn out right.
>
>2) I make a prediction that a statue of Joan of Arc & PeeWee Herman
>will be
>erected. I spout it often enough & everybody thinks it's a good idea,
>so
>fundraisers are held & the prophecy becomes self-fulfilling. I'm right
>
>again.
>
>3) I know a terrible future & tell it. I, or others, act on it &
>prevent
>it. I am wrong, but only because I originally was right, then became
>wrong
>due to intervention. This also works for the Gypsy & Judge case: a
>self-unfulfilling prophecy, if you will. I'm not right, but happy
>about it.
> BTW: If the gypsy knew the judge was knee-jerk contrary, she could
>have
>predicted a conviction...
>
>4) I know the future, but say it in such a mystical way that it is
>only
>understandable in hindsight. Not sure what the point of that would be,
>
>besides being able to say "ha-ha I knew it first..."
>
>Not sure where I'm going with this. I'll stop now.
>Thor
>
>>
>>Actually, there is a logical problem with telling the future. When I
>say
>>Tell here I mean communicating in a decypherable manner. The problem
>>looks like the following:
>>
>> A Judge presides over a trial accusing a Gypsy of being a fraud.
>After
>>pleading her case the Judge says, "Okay, This is going to be really
>easy.
>>If you can predict the future, tell me how I will decide this case.
>Will
>>I aquit you, or convict?"
>>
>> The judge has in mind to do the opposite of whatever she says, no
>matter
>>what she says. Therefore it looks like she can't know this future.
>But
>>if you look closely, you see that she can know the outcome, she just
>can't
>>tell it to the judge. Hence there are logical problems with
>telling the
>>future.
>>
>> How does this apply to Prophecy? Well, perhaps that's why they
>are
>>incomprehenible. Personally, I think Prophecy is a bunch of houey.
>I
>>believe they rely on certain reoocuring phenomina in human societies,
>or
>>in nature. "The greatest civilization will be concured by relative
>>barbarians." The terms are vague enough that you could be refering
>to
>>Rome, the US, Chinese Dynasties taken over by the Golden Horde, the
>assult
>>on the Library at Alexandria, or the popularity of Bevis and
>Butthead.
>>
>> Last year I spend a few days in the library looking into
>>interpretations of Nostradomus that were written in the 1950's. Just
>so
>>you all know, the world ended in about 1979.
>>
>>-j
>>
>
>
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