Subject: RE: An ocean full of bocce balls
lp9616@bristol.ac.uk
Date: Fri May 03 2002 - 06:12:00 EDT
Micaela,
That's really interesting, thank you. I don't really know much about
Buddhism, but I definitely think that Salinger is working through
different forms of enlightenment and ways of viewing the world in 'Nine
Stories'. Warren French argues the case for reading the book as a cycle
which needs to be in the order Salinger selected. I find it interesting,
actually, that after 'Nine Stories', Salinger went on the the Glass
stories. 'Teddy' is obviously on a high level of enlightenment, but I
think there's something rather chilling about that story. The ending
works as a twist in the tale rather than as a confirmation of Teddy's
spirituality, for me anyway. At the beginning of 'Zooey', Buddy says,
'He (Zooey) feels that the plot hinges on mysticism, or religious
mystification - in any case, he makes it very clear, a too vividly
apparent trancendent element of sorts, which he says he's worried can
only expedire, move up, the day and hour of my professional undoing.
People are already shaking their heads over me, and any immediate
personal use of the word 'God', except as a familiar, healthy American
expletive, will be taken - or, rather, confirmed - as the very worst
kind of name-dropping and a sure sign I'm going straight to the dogs'.
(London:Penguin, 1961, p.44)
This is, I think, in part referring to the discomfort the American pulic
felt with 'Teddy', which caused a great furore at the time it was
written. Buddy / Salinger goes on to deny that 'Zooey' is a mystical
story, he says it's a love story. I think this is very important when
theinking about what Salinger is trying to do. I think he is very
interested in Eastern ideas of the 'no-self', but it's easy for that to
appear very cold (as Esme is accused of being cold). I think
most of Salinger's characters are trying to work towards a loving way if
being in the world. It's very difficult: Seymour can't balance the
loving, accepting side of his nature with the spiritual side. He knows
that it's very easy to use spirituality in a way which allows you to
feel smug and superior; Franny struggles with the same problem. I
personally feel very uncomfortable with Teddy's total lack of interest
in other people's feelings, for example, when he tells the young man on
the ship that his parents' sorrow at his death would be a sign of their
lack of spiritual enlightenment. I am equally uncomfortable with
Seymour's excessive candour in 'Hapworth'; as someone has commented here
before, does Bessie really want to hear about his precocious sexual
urges? Total spiritual detachment is all very well, but where does it
fit into a modern western society? It might work for a few special
cases, but for most ordinary people it is more difficult. The answer, I
think, is focusing on the loving aspect of spiritual detachment. I am
reminded of the story someone told when I asked about the crying Buddhas
a few months ago. A disciple of the Buddha finds him crying, and asks
why. The Buddha replies that his best friend has died - naturally the
disciple wonders where giving up attachment to all worldy things fits
into this grief for his friend. The Buddha replies that some worldy
attachments are more difficult to give up that others. Personally I find
that that story makes the Buddha a lot more attarctive to me. Maybe that
is a sign of my poor spiritual progress, but if so, I think I'm probably
not alone in feeling that way. I think that Salinger recognised this and
was interested in this problem.
Incidentally, I don't think that Ramona is Walt's daughter. She looks
exactly like Lew. I think that this is probably one reason Eloise
resents her so much.
What are the references to 'The Wasteland' in 'Bananafish'? 'Mixing
memory and desire' is one, I know (although I believe Eliot may have
been quoting too) but I haven't noticed any others, although I haven't
looked carefully. Has anyone ever made a study of the relation between
Salinger and Eliot? I think there would probably be something in it. I
think the thing which disturbs Holden about Sunny the prostitute is the
same thing which disturbs Eliot in the typist who submits to caresses
'unreproved, if undesired' and 'smooths her hair with automatic hand'
after her lover leaves.
Well, like you, Micaela, I have two weeks till all my papers are due in,
so shouldn't be wasting time online, enjoyable as it is. I'd love to
hear more on this subject, though.
Love, Lucy-Ruth
Quoting Micaela <mbombard@middlebury.edu>:
> I'm having a really rough night (papers galore) so I can't write too
> much.
> I will say though, that I do not think that Seymour is far from
> enlightenment, but he is relatively further than the other
> characters. In
> "Uncle Wiggly" I would argue that the "main" character or focus is
> Ramona,
> who is probably Walt's daughter, and therefore it could be said that
> he, too
> is on an equal path to enlightenment as his daughter. She, like
> Walt, is a
> kind of seer. Note that the name "Sybil" (as in Sybil of
> "Bananafish") is
> in mythology a seer, a kind of profit. If you've ever read TS
> Eliot's
> "Wasteland", you will note the epigraph about Ss...Salinger was
> very
> influenced by Eliot (in particular "Wasteland") and there are several
> lines
> in "Bananafish" that are exact quotes from "Wasteland" if you look
> carefully. Umm...I'm getting off the subject. Oh, so I think
> Seymour (as
> Jim pointed out) is pretty much admitting or perhaps realizing that
> he is
> like the bananafish, who, focused on his own desire, causes himself
> suffering because he cannot transcend it. This focus on desire (the
> nature
> of which I am unsure of...perhaps of girls??) leads him to his
> suicide. In
> "Dinghy", Lionel is the one we are focused on. He is able to
> renounce
> worldly/sentimental attachments and push away desires. An example of
> this
> is that he throws the keys (which he asked for and wanted) into the
> water...a symbol of his pushing away of desire. He also does this
> with
> Seymour's goggles. The goggles are a symbol of Seymour as seer
> (there is a
> large motif of glasses, nearsightedness, etc. running through the
> stories).
> The goggles also symbolize a sentimental attachment, of which
> Lionel
> dismisses by throwing them overboard. A similar gesture is seen in
> "Esme"
> when she gives her father's watch away. It has sentimental value,
> but she
> calls it a "memento". Her emotional detachment (the detachment that
> Teddy
> later preaches) is seen by her father as her being "cold". Her
> tone
> throughout the story is very distant, even when describing her
> father's
> murder. She is close to achieving the state of realizing the
> illusion of
> life and being able to distance herself from sentimentality, yet she
> is not
> quite there. I could go on for hours and hours...but I have a shower
> to
> jump into a paper to write. Two more weeks left. Thanks for
> showing
> interest. More comments (this is fun).
> -Micaela
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-bananafish@roughdraft.org
> [mailto:owner-bananafish@roughdraft.org]On Behalf Of Jim Rovira
> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 7:01 PM
> To: bananafish@roughdraft.org
> Subject: Re: An ocean full of bocce balls
>
>
> Not sure exactly how it works out in Buddhism, but in the vedas I
> think
> the lowest level is the level of interest in sheer physical
> pleasure.
> Then family, then community, then transcendence. We're not
> discouraged
> from fully entering into each of the levels -- heck, there's a
> whole
> manual for sex :) -- but when we do we'll find that each one is
> lacking,
> and we'll want to move on. I think I've read something similar in
> buddhist literature, but it's been far too long for me to remember.
>
> These categories are so broad, of course, that any character can be
> placed into them without having to even make a connection between
> the
> author and Eastern thought.
>
> The feeling I get from Seymour is that he developed to a point, then
> his
> development was halted because he became entangled in other things.
> It's just too hard not to identify him with the Bananafish. Teddy
> talks
> about this too -- when I first read Teddy, I thought he was a
> reincarnation of Seymour, and was referring to a past life of his
> (Teddy's) in some of his lines. Seems like when I mentioned that
> idea
> years ago people here convincingly pointed out how problematic that
> idea
> was, but don't remember the details.
>
> Jim
> -
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