Re: holy smoke
Vincent Griffin (vag@sprynet.com)
Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:22:13 -0400
I forget if I can just "Reply to author" or not, so if I screw anything up,
take it easy on me. It's my first time. In fact, I'm only writing because I
was reading that response Helena Kim (?) made to--who was it? Tim? Anyway, I
just wanted to say (even though it doesn't matter much) that I was sorry to
read that reply about only the senile and little kids being in the thrall of
the Church. I mean, I don't see what that has to do with anything. I don't
think Tim's message (or are you Scott?) was about the strong faith of Irish
youth or anything even close to that. I think it was just the
experience--the very HUMAN experience--of searching for something. And maybe
you're right. Maybe all the Irish kids did get drunk and feel guilty and go
to mass...how could we ever know? But, in reality, what does it matter?
Do you remember in one of Salinger's stories (Maybe Seymour: An Intro), he's
talks about profanity as being a sort of low form of prayer, some subtle
simply human plea for help? Do you remember that? I think that, in that
frame of reference, Salinger would say that the crazies and the kids you
mention would be considered the lucky ones. The blessed ones, maybe.
OK...well, that was unclear. Anyway, you have my regrets.
Have to go write a paper now.
See you soon.
Ah, by the way, my name is Erin McLaughlin. I'm new here.
-----Original Message-----
From: helena kim <keleherh@tcd.ie>
To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu <bananafish@lists.nyu.edu>
Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: holy smoke
>At 10:14 14/10/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>As the mass started, and as it proceeded, all kinds of kids came in.
>>They looked a lot like some teenagers do here in NYC, in Greenwich
>>Village: leather, spiked hair, pierced faces, dog collars, all the
>>getup. But one by one or in groups they came into the church a bit
>>gingerly, a bit sheepishly, and like me they populated the back rows
>>and appeared as if they too expected to be hit by bolts of lightning.
>>But however fierce they looked (and some looked damned scary to me!),
>>they seemed to melt -- for just that hour or so -- into little Catholic
>>school kids.
>>
>>I don't know yet what kind of impression they made on me; it's only been
>>a few years and I haven't written it down enough to put it in
>>perspective. But I thought it was intriguing how even at their most
>>"rebellious," the kids in the back pew with me were doing all their
>>genuflections and signs-of-the-cross on cue. I had no idea of the
>>rhythm of a mass (Scottie, I hung up my surplice when, as barely a
>>teenager, I discovered girls!), and I watched the kids around me for
>>indications of when to stand and to sit and to kneel.
>
>i would say that this is not a sign of strong faith in irish youth.
>
>i just like to make two points...
>
>1) in ireland, all state schools, are, by default, catholic. unlike in the
>states, where the schools have no religion. when i was in the 6th grade at
>12 years of age, we all made our confirmation. the only way to escape this
>was to get your parents' and the school's permission. thus, out of 150 kids
>in my year, 1 girl left primary school 'unconfirmed'.
>
>the rythym of mass you mentioned isn't from regular mass going. it's from
>being forced to attend services in schools. the familiarity the kids you
>saw expressed for the format of the mass isin't a sign of a strong faith in
>god, it's a sign of a militant education system that has absolutely *no*
>provision outside of the dublin area for children of any faith other than
>christian. you will find catholic and protestant schools, but if you're not
>christian, your kids will *always* be singled out in school...
>
>2) christmas and easter are times of the year when people who never
>ordinarily go to mass, go. i for one, go on those days, not from any degree
>of faith, but in order to keep my mum happy. she likes to think the system
>works. and *especially* midnight mass. it's a thing which people tends to
>go to after the pub kicks them out (serving hours stop at 11pm) and they
>are drunk and feel amotional and guilty and decide to go and pray for good
>things to happen to them in the new year. (bear in mind that there is,
>essentially, no control on drinking age here)
>
>in my parish, midnight mass was actually discontinued due to the fact that,
>annually, the congregation consisted of mostly drunks.
>
>imagine a nation where everybody went to a strict catholic school. now
>imagine how dysfunctional they'd be...
>
>you get the idea. :)
>
>what part of ireland were you in? i just find this fascinating, because
>i've lived here all my life, and am taking three theology courses this
>semester, and i don't think i've ever seen anyone who wasn't a child or
>senile, in the thrall of the church.
>
>ps. i'm very sorry about your uncle's death.
>
>
>
>
> :helena kim
>
>[ Writing is not necessarily something to be ashamed of,
>but do it in private and wash your hands afterwards. ] - rh
>