RE: however, this is a tragic situation

Sorry about that, I may have missed that. But the criticism of the
content of the articles is still the same, and I'm not quite sure why
-only- looking at humanities (and, I suppose, social sciences) is so
important.
Jim

Because they are often the departments most directly trying to change the
culture to reflect their ideologies. That is fine if it is overt but it is
mostly overt, like John's "what's the point" argument. Lay the cards on the
table and we have a game, try to sneak about and get smacked. Deceptive
manipulations are not appreciated.
Daniel

I'm not looking for rationalizations -- there's nothing to rationalize.
I'm looking at the sources, at some fundamental dishonesty in
representing the data in the sources (which I hope would bother you
too), and what the source data really tells us.
Jim

Good.
Daniel

So, Jim, why doesn't one of these prestigious
>elite big city universities conduct a rigorous study?
>
How do you know they haven't?
Jim

I don't but if it has been done, I am all ears.
Daniel

> You try to associate
>Big cities with Liberal schools but why should the faculty, presumably
>recruited from across the country reflect the tendencies of the city?
Trustees money, donors money, corporate money, student demographics
(parents are paying for a lot of this, after alll), etc.
Jim

But if diversity were important enough to impose on the students then why
isn't it imposed on the faculty, all that you mention plays a factor but
those are excuses. Why isn't the lack of faculty diversity in these schools
being discussed in these schools? You argue that the bias is just a
reflection of the locality of the school and I say OK then why not change it
for their diversity's sake and you say money and I say OK so there is no
faculty diversity but you don't criticize that as vehemently as you do the
claim of lack of diversity. Are you really looking for fundamental
dishonesty in the source and when the source identifies some clear
violations of elite academia's diversity values you do not criticize? Is
this middle ground?
Daniel

Diversity has been defined ethnically and socially, but not
politically. That may be a real problem, but if you read all those
articles you'd see one that was very critical of defining diversity
politically. This would create an environment in which people were
specifically and institutionally singled out for their political ideas,
which I think is a very dangerous thing in any context.
Jim

I think that singling any one out for any social reason is dangerous, is
social justice academia's job? If so then that is political and by making
social based preferences you are already involved politically. In fact the
lack of political diversity in elite academia already indicates a dangerous
situation. I don't want preferences based on political affiliation nor do I
want them on any other grounds except performance but that is where the rub
lies. That is why elite academia has garnered the hostility mentioned by
John. Modern elite humanities academia eschews any kind of universal
qualifications so those who hold the chairs decide what is taught. You are
right on this Jim but it has already happened 'unofficially'.
Daniel

That's changing drastically these days as many Ph.D.s can't get tenure
track jobs at large research universities, or even small 4 year liberal
arts colleges.
Jim

Good, I encourage capable conservative academic types to take to the
trenches here.
Daniel

You're appear very dishonest, Daniel, because it seems you're trying to
"change the issue" -- and the issue has been, I believe (from reading
your posts and these articles), the type of influence universities are
having on our kids. Many of the articles used somewhat paranoid
language to talk about the way universities were "indoctrinating our
kids" -- and these are articles -you- provided links to, Daniel. You've
never mentioned in any previous posts research grants, Ph.D's, degrees
granted, etc. The focus has been on the biases of people teaching our
kids, and an image of the university as a place of political
indoctrination.
Jim

There is the indoctrination aspect but it comes to claims of authority. The
authority with its ideologies cascade down. It is one thing for parents to
pay for their kids education thinking they are getting one thing and they
get something quite different but it is quite another that these so called
diversity promoting institutions who are academic trend setters and leaders
don't practice what they preach and try to influence culture at every level
with a definite political brand and deny it out of the other side of their
mouths to keep the money and power flowing in. I do not have a problem with
left leaning academicians but I do have a problem with the denial of their
leanings and classroom activities as well as University college policies.
Come out in to the light and let the non-academicians see what you are
covertly about. That is what is happening and I encourage it. It is one
issue Jim, how ever you look at it, top down or bottom up.
Daniel

Since community colleges and small private colleges and universities do
teach a substantial number of our kids (including the numbers that wind
up in state U's after transferring from these), if we want to talk about
the national educational situation we need to include these institutions
as well.
Jim

Ok, but which sets of these institutions set the agenda in the various
humanities fields?
Daniel

I'm pretty sure I commented on the nature of the statistical data in my
previous post. The sum of anecdotal data? We don't know it. I know the
world described in those articles and the world I've lived in are two
different worlds. Stats are probably all we can really go on here.
Jim

People can start collecting particulars and archiving them for a case over
time. That would be more than just stats.
Daniel

What I argue for? What the heck are you talking about? Is there
anything here that requires a "stance"? You think I'm somehow
straddling the fence because I identify BS when I see it?
Jim

Jim, you have staked out the middle ground, ok, but your critical eye has a
preferred direction of glancing.
Daniel

Come on :).
Jim

Exactamundo.
Daniel

Do you want to know what I stand for? I stand for honesty in reporting,
which usually means against most mass media.
Jim

I agree, but the links I gave you are not the main stream media but how can
you in po-dunk New Jersey know a report if not received from some sort of
media communicated in mass? Honesty would not dictate any general
condemnation of something so generic as mass media.
Daniel
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Received on Mon Sep 29 18:11:51 2003