RE: however, this is a tragic situation

Daniel, I've read a good many articles in media sources about "academia,"
and
most of them demonstrated a gross ignorance of their subject from my point
of
view. Of course I don't have statistical data about every article out
there, so
all I can reference is my own experience. Most sucked, some were pretty
good.
Jim

Criticism is such an odd fellow, inductions from such a small sample are
valid at times and invalid at others, what is the tool of division? Will?
Daniel

You know, it's funny, you accuse me of a kind of materialism in a later post
and
then complain humanities research is "not anchored in the real world." What
do
you mean by the "real world"? The world as seen by you? The world of
"common
sense"? The world as everyone understands it and has it fed to them?
Jim

Who said materialism is the real world? real world is the world as it
exists as fabricated by its maker. You haven't been paying attention Jim.
Daniel

There are two ways of looking at this.
In the first way, some academics deliberately try to see the world
differently,
rather than just repeat everyone's biases back to them.
Jim

I'll insert another so what here. How is the difference or another set
biases better? Better is a term of comparison which implies a choice which
is an object of the will. Now, I'll say again, "so what?". Is this the
mission or purpose of the humanitist? At least Nietzsche was more honest
about all this.
Daniel

In the second way, I don't understand the relevance to "the real world" of
the
scientific opinions, for example, informing Keat's poetry. This is purely a
matter of historical research that is either valued as an activity in itself
or
not valued at all -- there will be no economic or immediately practical use
for
this knowledge.
Jim

Our we back to that Jim? Is the humanitist work limited to this? Does not
the humanitist often parley even this into a vision of the world? And this
vision requires only a mental tangent with this world it superimposes it's
vision on? Or should that vision for validity's sake seek more contact?
Consequences and accountability, Jim, a man can die from a little tiny grain
of sand if it is placed carefully.
Daniel

I think that's just fine, and think that historical research is a good thing
in
itself.
Jim

How is it good in and of itself? It is only good if it informs the person,
and that information is manifested as good. Historical research is just
historical research like a knife is a knife. Is a knife good in and of
itself?
Daniel

> Why not? They claim to be subjects that inform man of his condition.
This
> is not fit for the public?
No, Daniel, not every single piece of humanities research is designed to
inform
us about the condition of man. The field as a whole does that, but
individual
books or articles do not, necessarily. Some of them try to answer
historical
questions, some try to demonstrate how the language is working to create an
effect. Many are only of interest to people in the field. Even in
specialized
academic journals devoted to a single author, it's doubtful that every
article
would be of direct interest even to the specialist. Most articles only try
to
answer a specific question, and that question isn't being asked by everyone.
Jim

Since when has intent mattered to you Jim? If the public takes up an aspect
of humanities or humanities in general for discussion then what is that to
you? If a humanitist brings his expertise to bear upon society at large
then has he not changed the intent? Aren't historical questions and the
methodology of knowing and knowing well relevant to the public? A specific
question may or may not be relevant to everyone or anyone but since when is
that for you to decide? The how of determination of relevance and the how
to know is always relevant to everyone if that ever discuss anything and
these are the keys that humanitists desire to control.
Daniel

> Again, must we be initiated into its higher secrets?
No, you dumbass, you just need to care about the questions being asked :).
Most
people don't. I don't blame them.
Jim

Read my comment above, open the door Jim and let the people come and go.
And if the humanitist wants to maintain his status as an expert he must
become accountable for his work to the people. Jim, for a fan of different
ideas you seem pretty hostile to a different idea.
Daniel

> That is the root of its self destruction, it is held apart from
> the rough, unclean hands of the masses, preserved for whom?
Boy, you're really on a roll, now. :)
Jim

Do you care whether your work as a humanitist is valued? If so then quit
hiding behind your veil of false authority, if you want real authority then
engage the public, listen to them, try the ideas in the crucible of life and
praise and punish accordingly never forgetting mercy, but the imagery of the
ivory tower will persist otherwise. You as a non-expert are so keen to
correct arrogant engineers but you as the expert are so blinded to this
correction and in fact this resistance and blinded ness to correction is
becoming institutionalized in your field, this is not unique but it will
breed hostility and eventually irrelevancy if not addressed. Jim, I am
telling you your house is on fire, the wise man would drive home and check.
Do what you do best and ignore and but me as your neighbor will only
tolerate it for so long. And then comes time for action and that time has
begun and is fast approaching. When you drive home tonight, watch the
clouds and think about coming storms, one is upon you and my breezy words
are just the signs of the coming tempest.
Daniel

> Do you critique the work and if it survives the
> ideological rake over the coals then it is good, honest, hard work?
No, ideology (a nice, Marxist word you use there, Daniel -- careful you
haven't
been infected) has nothing to do with how I evaluate what is good, honest,
hard
work. I compare the facts being presented with the facts I know, and if all
the
facts aren't being accounted for, and if the author should have known these
facts, I think the author really hasn't done his or her work.
Jim

I try to use terms that you are familiar with Jim. How do you collect the
facts, what is a fact to you Jim? And by what methodology do you determine
what is a fact and whether they have been met. And do all humanitist agree
on the facts or even the methodology? If not then what is a humanitist
expert an expert of? his opinion? Ah, then I am a Humanitist expert
already. The lawyer has a judge, a jury, and a client, the Doctor has the
patient, the engineer has the whole public and they all have the government
which for now represents the people looking over their shoulder. What does
the humanitist have? Opinion, ok fine but that is different. Not valid or
good just different.
Daniel

All these words I chose -- honest, hard working, and careful -- has to do
with
how many and what kind of facts are gathered up to come to the work's
conclusion, which may have ideological content and may not.
Jim

A person can do honest, hard, careful work and still be wrong. Ok, until
you can test for that then do use it as a public platform or measurement of
truth or knowledge.
Daniel

If I read a work that helps me understand the literature and unravels some
knots, man I'm appreciative.
Jim

Good for you, but that is only one tiny aspect of Humanities. If you spend
your time and your effort and feel that you have benefited, ok, but what is
the extrapolation of this to the public. They read, some more some less,
they think and many appreciate an unraveling of a literary knot but who
needs an expert? To learn technique? Then we are back to those hidden
assumptions that I admonish you to bring out into the light.
Daniel

But you'll see this has nothing to do with representing any kind of
ideology.
Jim

Of course it does Jim, the questions asked, the answers seen as acceptable
all reflect an ideology. What is legitimate knowledge always depends on
ideology, some work, some work more or less, and some not at all.
Daniel

I could list a few academic books that I consider really good, and if they
were
worth your time to read you'd see what I was talking about.
Jim

Recommend away. I will make an effort to read.
Daniel

But I don't think you really care to know the truth about this.
Jim

The same can be said for you, but my ideology/bias/worldview/paradigm has
hope as well as Truth. There, out in the sunshine.
Daniel
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Received on Tue Sep 30 13:48:20 2003