Insight please...
SPmaniac (SPmaniac@aol.com)
Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:46:22 -0400 (EDT)
Hey, this here is my first post on this mailing list. I must say that i
have'nt actually
read alot, i just figured that it would always be there on those nights when
i'm online with
nothing to do.
I'm here to ask a question about The Catcher in the Rye. i just read it in
my junior
english class. I was then assigned a dumb ass paper. Instead of having the
class write an
actuall essay on two of the books we had read, our teacher told us to simply
write an
outline of the basic thoughts that would go into a literary analysis. This
severly impaired
my ability to get my points across. I decided to compare the journeys of Guy
Montag
(Farenheit 451) and Holden.
Which brings me to my questions. My teacher shot down every idea i had about
holden, but she praised pretty much all i had to say about Guy. I was
wondering if i could
get some insight, from the people who know Holden, as to whether my ideas
about his
journey are correct. Here's the paper, and her corrections and flames are at
the end with
my thoughts. Please bare in mind that I am only in 11th grade and i realize
you'r almost all in college. It may not be the most intelligent paper you've
ever read. (you may want to maximise this window to get all the tabs right)
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Caulfield Compared to Montag
Living in realities that can’t supply them with the fulfillment they need,
both Holden
Caulfield and Guy Montag travel strenuous roads to find some sort of truth and
escape.
I. Both Holden and Guy were assimilated into society’s system before they
realized that
it can’t provide them with sufficient fulfillment.
A. Holden was just another boy in an all boy school, Pencey. He was a
decent
student, did well in English. He had had some previous problems, but then
again, so had everyone else.
B. Guy was the epitome of a model citizen. He was a law enforcement
official, a
Fireman. He was proud, and seemingly content.
II. Both Holden and Guy realized, in one way or another, that the roads they
lead would
not take them where they wanted to go, and thus left them to search for
something
more.
A. At first Holden’s grades started to go down, and he was kicked out. Then
the incident with Stradlater made him realize that he needed some time to
think to
himself before he went home.
B. Guy was first hit with a little bit of sense when he got to know
Clarisse. Then
he was finally set loose when he stole some magazines and books from a
house.
III. Both Holden and Guy had something that made them feel secure, and as if
they are
doing the right thing, when they knew they were going against all that they
should
have.
A. At the beginning of Holden’s journey he has a considerable amount of
money.
When his journey comes to an end he runs out, even has to borrow some from
his little sister. The money gave him the security to go on for the few
days he
took to himself.
B. Guy would have never quit his job, or broken the law until he found
books.
They gave him the security and will to go on breaking the law.
IV. Along the way both Holden and Guy run into the same types of people that
severely
annoy them.
A. The people that really annoy Holden are the seemingly mindless, and
ignorant.
When people don’t see it just his way he gets angry with them and
assumes they are phony. He is not always correct, and he
admits this at the
end.
B. The only time Guy ever really seems to get mad is when Millie and all her
friends don’t listen to him when he reads them poetry. They just don’t
listen to
him, much less understand what he was reading. What annoyed him was the
fact that they were too mindless to understand
V. Both found fulfillment with the help they received form the already
enlightened.
A. Holden gets some really good help from Mr. Antolini. Mr. Antolini has a
long
and deep conversation with Holden, and while he is very sleepy, he listens
and
learns.
B. Guy gets help from Granger. Granger already knows what is going on, he
is
just to cowardly to do anything about it. He helps Guy take care of the
Chief and tells him where he can go to get away from society. Guy follows
the
advice,and just in time before the city and all civilization blows up.
Corrections:
*First, she stated at the begining of the paper that "your thought process at
guy is strong.
thougts on holden, however, seem vague and random"
My thought is that her thought process at guy is strong, and her thoughts on
holden are
random. from the way she attemted to teach this book, she never really seemed
to
completely understand the improtant lessons, and ideas.
*Next was one of two good comments. she said my thesis was "well said."
Whatever....
*Next she underlined the words "decent student" in the very first concrete
detail.
I admit that i'm not sure he was a "decent student." But she missed the
point, which i was
not able to completely portray due to the constrictions of this assignment.
The point was
that he was in fact assimilated into society's system, he was just another
kid.
*Then under the concrete detail that immediatly followed she told me to
"remember, i said
if you can have a C/D (concrete detail), you should! you can here!"
That statement for Guy could not have gotten any more concrete, if you ask me.
Seriously, i
dont' know what the fuck she's talkin about with that quote. Plus, i was
following one of
the outline skeletons she had given us, i would have broken the uniformity of
the outline, if
i had put another concrete detail in there.
*Next was her attack on the very next statement i had about holden. she
stated "His grades
were already low. What about Allies death and that effect on him?"
I thought about mentioning Allie's death, which she was rather obsessed with
when
lecturing. I thought about it because that and the incident with stratlater
kinda go hand in
hand since holden got really violent in both situations. But it did'nt
directly effect his
leaving for a few days. And i also, if not constrained to one sentence, would
have
mentioned the numerous other reasons for his leaving for a few days. My main
point, once
again is that she missed the point. Which was that holden was finally
completely fed up,
and due to the circumstances, left, because he could.
*Next was the correction that literally left a pain in my stomach. Once again
it was aimed
at my next thought on Holden. she said "this seems inconsequential to me!"
Now this statement that i made about holden is probably the mose insightfull
thing i had
ever put into a paper that i came up with. And it is not bullshit, i know
this to be true, and
not even you guys can sway me from believing that Holden's fluxuating finances
had almost
complete control of his few days in New York. They gave him the security to
do it, and he
always kept the reader updated on how much money he had. And if you die-hards
recall,
holden started balling when, toward the end of his journey, Phoebe offered him
money that
he needed. There could be many reasons why he started crying here. He could
have just
felt guilty that he was taking money from his little sister. He might have
just realized what
an ass he had been for that last few days, and how it is now costing his
little sister.
*Next she simply put a "yes" next to the concrete detail on Guy under the 3rd
topic
sentence.
This actually confused me. If that statement at guy was good, but the one for
Holden was
bad, then i should'nt have even made that comparison between the two. So i
don't know
what she wanted there.
*Her next comment was aimed at the last 4 concrete details. She said "keep
these to one
sentence.
This is why i wanted to write a full on essay, instead of an outline.
*Her last comment was aimed at my Mr Antolini statement. She aske me "you
really think
so? Mr. A fondles him! and he runs!"
This is how i know that my teacher gained nothing and understood nothing
important that
this book had to say. Mr Antolini knows what the fuck he's talkin about. I'm
mainly
refering to the quote that he gave holden, and his assesment of holden's
state. The quote
was something along the lines of "Immature men want to fight, and mature men
are humble."
(sorry, i just masacered the most important quote in the book) And my
thoughts on Mr.
Antolini fondling Holden are that even the best advice can come from fucked up
individuals. And i think that perverts why high on Holdens list of people he
hates. I think
the whole scene with Mr. Antolini was the most openly writen part. I can't
really explain
it, but it seemed that Salinger was really pouring his guts. And then to make
up for that, he shocked and sickened you with the whole, uncomfortable,
fondling scene. I cant really put this to words, its just something you have
to know, and feel.
**********************************************************************
So thats it. If anyone can, please give me your comments on both my paper, and
my teachers comments. Tell me if i'm just fucked up, and cant see it. Thanx
for reading
Patrick