Re: intelligence of the author vs. intelligence of the characters

my replies embedded below.
 Jim Rovira wrote:
I don't think you know who are out of MFA programs and who are not :).

Here's a list of graduates from the Iowa Writer's Workshop -- tell me if
you think any of them are accomplished like Salinger is accomplished:

"The program has produced a dozen winners of the Pulitzer Prize (most
recently Jorie Graham in poetry,1996), three recent US Poet Laureates (Mark
Strand, Mona Van Duyn and Rita Dove), and numerous winners of the National
Book Award and other major literary honors. Noted graduates include:
Flannery O'Connor, John Irving, Robert Bly, Tracy Kidder, Allan Gurganus,
W.P. Kinsella, Wallace Stegner, William Stafford, Bharati Mukherjee, Jane
Smiley, Thom Jones, Bob Shacochis, Margaret Walker, Andre Dubus, Phil
Levine, Donald Justice, Raymond Carver and T. Coraghessan Boyle" -- from
http://www.uiowa.edu/~iww/iww2.htm

as accomplished as salinger: flannery o'connor (had no idea iowa went back that far and she attended) and raymond carver.

S:AI is hardly a literary "accomplishment" -- it's really rather obscure
for everyone but diehard Salinger fans.

i wasn't especially singling out 's:ai' as an accomplishment (though i think it is). i was just using it as the chronological endpoint of what he'd written by the time he was 40; 40 seeming to be when a writer is not longer considered 'young'. i was using 40 for comparison with more recent writers and what they had written up to that age. there's no denying salinger's earliest stuff was pretty paltry, but from '48 to '55 he had quite a hitting streak going. granted, from 'zooey' on most critics are crying strikeouts (only glass fans say home runs).

If it weren't for _Catcher in the
Rye_ it's really unlikely that any of Salinger's work would be as
constantly republished as it is today -- making him one of many authors who
published in The New Yorker, Atlantic Monthly, Saturday Evening Post...not
too different, really, from a moderately successful MFA degree holder.

i agree salinger's rep would be nearly totally different without 'the catcher'. but i don't believe even without it his standing would be that of a 'moderately successful mfa degree holder'. the historic impact of the nine stories alone in 'the new yorker' from '48 to '53 bespeaks of someone above the mfa-er. today, mostly, a story is published there and: yawn. (i don't think anyone apart from barthelme and beattie have provoked impassioned reader response since salinger's 'reign'.)

How many "successful" authors have written a _Catcher in the Rye_? And how
many could write more than one?

the point is salinger _did_ write 'the catcher' and hence that alone raises him up above 99% of the mfa crowd.

A more significant comparison would be between the quality of stuff that
comes from authors out of MFA programs and the stuff from authors who don't
-- their relative literary merit, publishing history, etc. One thing
you're overlooking with the MFA program is that most of the better ones put
aspiring authors in direct contact with already fairly successful authors.
This also can lead to contact with literary agents as well as an inside
look at what gets published and how to get it published.

yes, this is an interesting point. i sorta wonder if a writer's temperment determines whether he successfully navigates the mfa (in addition to his talent). i wonderful if a joyce or pound transposed to now would stay the course.

Ultimately, I'd agree with you that a program can't teach someone who
really can't write how to write (but these people usually can't get in),
but it's a terrible mistake to think that it has nothing to offer someone
who can.

i don't think i said that a program 'can't teach someone who really can't write how to write'. i imagine that is more easily taught than what would elevate a writer from exceedingly accomplished to blessed. i'm not denying that there's nothing to be offered; i'm just not totally convinced that it's the best path for everyone. prior to the iowa workshop, where did the world's great writers come from?

kim

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Received on Fri Aug 30 18:05:55 2002