leaps of illogic, re. Carver and Kafka
Laughing Man (the_laughing_man@hotmail.com)
Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:08:06 -0700 (PDT)
I have this image of Mr Spock giving me that troubled brow right now,
saying: “restrain your leaps of illogic, Doctor!”
But I have to tell you, fellow fishes: posts like these about Raymond
Carver, they give me that “paranoid in reverse”-feeling. Jason’s general and
Tim’s specific analysis of Carver stories makes me want to run back to my
book shelves for a full evening of digging and reading. It’s gray and rainy
today, so the timing would be perfect, were I not at the office
For trigger happy fishes, which made the mistake of deleting the posts too
fast, read the extracts attached below.
I have a comment about Kafka, though. John seemed a bit disappointed about
our Kafka not being serious enough. Personally, I have always wanted to get
out of the door when people get that “now this is serious stuff so don’t you
smile”-look in their face when talking about Kafka. Kafka is funny as hell,
and very very serious at the same time; there is no paradox in that you miss
a lot of his qualities if you don’t appreciate his black humor.
In an anthology of German short stories, the Kafka introduction told an
Kafka anecdote I can’t help retelling, superficial as it may be (that has
certainly never stopped me):
(free from memory and, as usual, badly translated)
“Kafka is told to be a dark prophet. Is there really no hope, we ask?
- Ooh, Kafka says, of course there is hope. Lots of hope. An infinite amount
of hope.
Only not for us.”
/The Panegyric Man
John:
>From: John Smith <johnsmiii@yahoo.com>
>Has anybody read, 'Why don't you dance?' I've heard
>Carver was an amazing author but I found myself
>puzzled when I caught that story in a reprint. Why is
>the man's dancing with her supposed to be so mystical?
> Granted, it's strange for a man to reposition his
>bedroom furniture on his driveway and ask a stranger
>to dance, but what is this story supposed to
>represent? I've read some cryptic Kafka and it isn't
>nearly as puzzling as Carver's story, if it is
>supposed to resonate with meaning. Is there some sort
>of mystery hidden between the lines that he expects us
>to assemble? I've only read that one story, maybe if
>I was more acquainted with his style I would see what
>message he attempts to convey. Is it a puzzle or
>maybe a symbolic portrayal of suburban life? I'd love
>to hear anyone's thoughts on the story and Carver.
Jason:
>From: jason varsoke <jjv@caesun.msd.ray.com>
>Ah, Carver, so close to my heart, so close to the bottle. I haven't read
>'Why don't you dance?' but I think I can lend some insight into Carver.
>Reading him is a little strange. His pieces are often very poetic in the
>sense that picking appart the details never gets you close to the whole.
>And that's what you have to take in, the whole. You see, Carver has a
>slow fuse. You look at everything that's going on in the story and often
>ask yourself, so what? Then, often on the last page, the emotion
>explodes. Actually, it's more like a supersaturated suspended collodial
>solution. (If you know what I mean, you'll know exactly what I mean)
>Adding that last detail renders the entire thing in front of you. If you
>want, probably the best, example of this, read "Cathedral." That story is
>amazing. Right at the end you have this very strange feeling, and you are
>the main character. You just are.
[…]
> So my suggestion is, don't look at the details, look at the whole.
>Kafka can be understood through the details, as can JDS. But for Carver,
>is just the whole. i guess it's like looking at those stereograms. You
>can't do it by parts, you either got it or you don't.
Tim:
>From: Tim O'Connor <tim@roughdraft.org>
>
> > Why is
> > the man's dancing with her supposed to be so mystical?
>
>He's lost everything: his family life, his hope, his future, and and
>has all this possessions, which are pretty much everything that is
>left of his life, out on the lawn for sale. He's lost human contact.
>He has lost everything.
>
>Along comes a young couple. The don't know why all this household
>material is out in the yard; all they know is that a strange man
>seems to be emptying his house for no reason at all. It's suffused
>with sadness and melancholy and regret all the way through.
>
> > Granted, it's strange for a man to reposition his
> > bedroom furniture on his driveway and ask a stranger
> > to dance, but what is this story supposed to
> > represent?
>
>Carver himself had a few brushes with the bleak side of life, and I
>suspect that in this story he was showing us a man who had very
>literally hit absolute bottom. The innocent couple knows little or
>nothing about it. Perhaps this ruined man was like them once; so
>many Carver characters start innocent and end up cynical.
>
> > I've read some cryptic Kafka and it isn't
> > nearly as puzzling as Carver's story, if it is
> > supposed to resonate with meaning. Is there some sort
> > of mystery hidden between the lines that he expects us
> > to assemble? I've only read that one story, maybe if
> > I was more acquainted with his style I would see what
> > message he attempts to convey.
>
>Yes, reading more Carver ("So Much Water...." and the story in, I
>think, "Cathedral," in which a man with no hands, only hooks, goes
>door-to-door selling people pictures of themselves in front of their
>houses) would help you put him in his own context. But I think
>"Dance" stands pretty strongly on its own.
>
>It's not like Kafka, who impregnated his work with menace and dread.
>Carver's dread always seems to take place in the unforgiving sunshine
>of parking lots or the overcase days or the sad hours of the evening.
>Kafka, at absolute bottom, is hilarious; his friends said that as he
>read his work aloud, he could barely keep from laughing at what he
>had written, at the underlying perversity of it. There is very
>little funniness in Carver. His people and places are weatherbeaten.
>his people inhabit places most of us hope we never find.
>
> > Is it a puzzle or
> > maybe a symbolic portrayal of suburban life?
>
>It's the puzzle of what happens when you hit the end of your road and
>think you have no more choices to make, I would say.
>
Jason again:
>From: jason varsoke <jjv@caesun.msd.ray.com>
You're right, there is no archetypial symbolism in Carver. He's doing
>slice of life. Kafka was doing the extrodinary life and showing you
>wierd. But Carver, Carver's showing you the guy who lives two houses down
>from you, who just lost his job at the mill, and has to take back a pair
>of sneakers at K-Mart. Carver's weird is elusive because it's common.
>You really need to pay attention to the relationships in the story. Don't
>look for hints, don't look for clues. Carver's famous for saying, "No
>tricks." He doesn't seem to plant things. He just writes an honest
>story. You gotta remember, this stuff is slice-of-life. This is some
>guy's life, sitting out on his driveway. Dancing with some girl. He
>thinks it's sex. She doesn't. How does all that make the man feel?
>What's his condition. Is this a sad state of affairs? And Tim's right.
>There's nothing funny about Carver. Just remember, it's every day in
>these people's lives. They live. They're normal. They're us.
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