Subject: RE: Is "For Esmé" for real?
ZazieZazie@hetnet.nl
Date: Mon Jan 21 2002 - 17:17:23 GMT
Actually, both u and cold fishies xplane made is quite understandable. wow. good. keep up. tnx
Zaz
-----Original Message-----
From: "owner-bananafish@roughdraft.org" <owner-bananafish@roughdraft.org> on behalf of "James Rovira" <jrovira@drew.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 12:18 AM
To: "bananafish@roughdraft.org" <bananafish@roughdraft.org>
Subject: Re: Is "For Esmé" for real?
Yeah...I'd like to add to Cold Fish's comments too. I think we need to keep in
mind that the story itself is the story of its own inception. Remember Esme
asked Buddy to write her a story with lots of Squalor in it? :) The Squalor was
significant in that it set up the conditions that made the small act of love so
verrry significant. So the story must represent in some way at least Buddy's
(presumably) conception of what Esme meant by "squalor." Cold Fish's definition
probably fits pretty well...
Jim
Cold Fish wrote:
> Here are my two €...
> While squalor is indeed defined as "dirty," in this context I think Esmé is
> referring to the conditions typical of the hyper-Romanticist (my term)
> literature of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries: full of strife,
> transcendant love and overwhelmingly difficult circumstances.
>
> Esmé probably wanted Sgt. X to write something with an underlying message
> similar to that of a more modern work that is "extremely squalid and
> moving," 'Love in the Time of Cholera,' in which a recurring theme is: "love
> becomes greater and nobler in calamity."
>
> Speaking of €, hope you get your Kronins (is that your currency?) converted
> soon.
>
> Judd
>
> >From: ZazieZazie@hetnet.nl
> >Reply-To: bananafish@roughdraft.org
> >To: <bananafish@roughdraft.org>
> >Subject: RE: Is "For Esmé" for real?
> >Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:30:59 +0100
> >
> >my 2 eurocents ....
> >i don't think Esmee is real, she's much too idealized for that, as is the
> >little brother.
> >What does squalid, or squalor really mean? Is it, as the dictionary say,
> >'dirty'? I find that a little limiting,
> >are there any other meanings to the word? Or what, in the opinion of the
> >native speakers, is the meaning intended here?
> >I got this book from my ex-bf, and i am not really sure what he meant by
> >it, so there's a personal interest here as well :-)
> >
> >Z.
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: "owner-bananafish@roughdraft.org" <owner-bananafish@roughdraft.org>
> >on behalf of "Cold Fish" <jiggyfish@hotmail.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:13 PM
> >To: "bananafish@roughdraft.org" <bananafish@roughdraft.org>
> >Subject: Re: Is "For Esmé" for real?
> >
> >I want to know if JDS literally wrote "For Esmé" as the belated fulfillment
> >of a promise to a young, orphaned British girl to write a story for her and
> >"Make it extremely squalid and moving."
> >
> >In other words, is "For Esmé" a work of pure fiction or a recounting of
> >JDS'
> >(or, rather, Staff Sergent X's) own wartime experiences?
> >
> >Judd
> >
> > >From: Jim Rovira <jrovira@drew.edu>
> > >Reply-To: bananafish@roughdraft.org
> > >To: bananafish@roughdraft.org
> > >Subject: Re: Is "For Esmé" for real?
> > >Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:30:59 -0500
> > >
> > >heh...love your tag :).
> > >
> > >I mean, I know it's autobiographical to the extent that Chris mentioned
> >in
> > >his replies to you...yes, Salinger was in the service and undoubtedly
> >drew
> > >from his experiences to write his wartime fiction. The question is...how
> > >far do you think it's autobiographical? Are you asking all the way down
> >to
> > >his meeting a young woman and her brother in a restaurant and getting a
> > >watch from her in the mail? The story seems to imply a motive for its
> >own
> > >writing...so I wonder if Salinger himself was similarly motivated? Are
> >you
> > >asking that far?
> > >
> > >Maybe Will and Tim would know :).
> > >
> > >Jim
> > >
> > >Cold Fish wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The academics in the group will have to forgive me, as I'm sure the
> > >question
> > > > I'm about to ask has been treated at length in this forum or another;
> > > > however, since I have yet to read commentary on the subject, I will
> > >raise it
> > > > here.
> > > >
> > > > Is there any evidence that "For Esmé with Love and Squalor" is at all
> > > > autobiographical? Every time I read that story -- and I read it
> > >frequently
> > > > -- I am struck by the degree of realism that I don't tend to see in
> > >other
> > > > JDS works (possibly with the exception of the Zooey half of Franny and
> > > > Zooey). I can't help but feel that the story is inspired by something
> > >unique
> > > > and very personal.
> > > >
> > > > I know that JDS was in the service during WWII, but I don't know where
> > >or if
> > > > he was anywhere near D-Day.
> > > >
> > > > I also know that the date of publication of the story could roughly
> > >coincide
> > > > with the character's wedding at age 18.
> > > >
> > > > Again, if this is a Salinger no-brainer, I apologize...it certainly
> > >feels
> > > > like an elementary question for this group.
> > > >
> > > > Judd
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
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