Subject: Re: Cheever and Salinger
From: midge immington (midgeimmington@yahoo.com)
Date: Fri Jun 21 2002 - 15:24:39 EDT
I don't think it's meant to be obvious, this koan of a
story.
Bye!
Midge
--- Jim Rovira <jrovira@drew.edu> wrote:
> That's just it, though...possible, but it's not
> obvious to me yet :).
>
> Jim
>
> midge immington wrote:
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > I've known some bookbuyers to go into a bookstore
> and
> > buy as many as 78 books. (Not an unspecified
> number
> > whose purchases together total up to 78.)
> >
> > I think Seymour meant one bananafish with 78
> bananas.
> >
> > All I'm saying is the progression of the text as
> > quoted at the end of this email is worth thinking
> > about. Obviously, Salinger did.
> >
> > Bye!
> > Midge
> >
> >
> > --- Jim Rovira <jrovira@drew.edu> wrote:
> > > Ok, that's more credible, thanks. Lemme make
> sure I
> > > have the details of the
> > > story down right.
> > >
> > > Sybil saw 6 tigers.
> > > Seymour said bananafish got caught with 78
> bananas
> > > in their mouth (seemed like
> > > b-fish were plural here).
> > > Sybil said she saw one bananafish with 6 bananas
> in
> > > its mouth while she was
> > > with Seymour.
> > >
> > > So you're saying that since the b-fish had 6,
> > > instead of 78, bananas in its
> > > mouth, it may escape?
> > >
> > > Yeah, maybe ;). I can see that.
> > >
> > > I could see Seymour kissing Sybil's feet both
> > > because she allowed him a way of
> > > escape (I think identifying Seymour with the
> > > bananafish is almost a foregone
> > > conclusion...we need to look somewhere for the
> > > reason for Seymour's suicide),
> > > or just because he was pleased that she was
> entering
> > > his imaginative world.
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > midge immington wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi!
> > > >
> > > > I'm not saying that six nor 78 per se are
> > > symbolic.
> > > > What I think is interesting is that Sybil
> first
> > > says
> > > > re the tigers "only six" in response to
> Seymour's
> > > "so
> > > > many". Then in the bananafish scene, he refers
> to
> > > 78
> > > > as an example of the tragedy of the bananafish
> > > getting
> > > > trapped and not being able to get out. When
> Sybil
> > > > sees the bananafish it is again six. In both
> > > cases
> > > > she's offering an opposing view to his.
> (There is
> > > the
> > > > constancy of the child with six.) This
> > > bananafish
> > > > will be able to get out--after all, she sees 6
> > > bananas
> > > > not 78. If at one level Seymour is the
> > > bananafish, he
> > > > then realizes he will be able to escape his
> > > dilemma of
> > > > being trapped--hence the kiss.
> > > >
> > > > Bye!
> > > > Midge
> > > >
> > > > --- Jim Rovira <jrovira@drew.edu> wrote:
> > > > > ok, what? What I see is wordplay :). Sybil
> > > said
> > > > > she saw six tigers. For
> > > > > that reason, she then said she saw a
> bananafish
> > > with
> > > > > six bananas in her
> > > > > mouth. What does the number do beyond
> provide a
> > > > > basis for wordplay in
> > > > > Seymour/Sybil's dialog?
> > > > >
> > > > > What, then, is the point of a single
> bananafish
> > > > > eating as many as "78"
> > > > > bananas? Rather than running to a
> Kabbalistic
> > > > > interpretation of 78, common
> > > > > sense tells me that everyone's just pulling
> > > numbers
> > > > > out of their heads :).
> > > > >
> > > > > There's no point is saying "it has to mean
> > > > > something" unless you can say
> > > > > what that something is, and give specific
> > > reasons
> > > > > for linking that specific
> > > > > something to Salinger or the story.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's not enough to just say that Salinger
> read a
> > > > > source. He read a lot
> > > > > :). That doesn't mean everything he read
> > > influenced
> > > > > every story he wrote.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim
> > > > >
> > > > > midge immington wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim Rovira <jrovira@drew.edu> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My point was not that the number was
> > > > > absolutely insignificant,
> > > > > > but we need
> > > > > > to consider the possibility that it
> may
> > > be.
> > > > > And that, if we are
> > > > > > going to
> > > > > > make associations, they can't be
> random
> > > or
> > > > > simply guided by our
> > > > > > own
> > > > > > imagination -- Salinger himself would
> > > have to
> > > > > give us reasons
> > > > > > for that
> > > > > > association. Sticking to the context
> of
> > > the
> > > > > story, the number 6
> > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > seem to recur, so it's not given any
> > > > > significance that way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ***
> > > > > > Hi!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "I thought they'd never stop. I
> never
> > > saw so
> > > > > many tigers."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "There were only six," Sybil said.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "*Only* six!" said the young man.
> "Do
> > > you
> > > > > call that *only*?"
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [two pages later Seymour says]:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Why, I've known some bananafish to
> swim
> > > into
> > > > > a banana hole and
> > > > > > eat as many as seventy-eight
> bananas."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [next page]:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "I just saw one."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Saw what, my love?"
> > > > > >
>
=== message truncated ===
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b25 : Tue Sep 17 2002 - 16:26:07 EDT