Subject: Re: Cheever and Salinger
From: Jim Rovira (jrovira@drew.edu)
Date: Fri Jun 21 2002 - 15:12:51 EDT
That's just it, though...possible, but it's not obvious to me yet :).
Jim
midge immington wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I've known some bookbuyers to go into a bookstore and
> buy as many as 78 books. (Not an unspecified number
> whose purchases together total up to 78.)
>
> I think Seymour meant one bananafish with 78 bananas.
>
> All I'm saying is the progression of the text as
> quoted at the end of this email is worth thinking
> about. Obviously, Salinger did.
>
> Bye!
> Midge
>
>
> --- Jim Rovira <jrovira@drew.edu> wrote:
> > Ok, that's more credible, thanks. Lemme make sure I
> > have the details of the
> > story down right.
> >
> > Sybil saw 6 tigers.
> > Seymour said bananafish got caught with 78 bananas
> > in their mouth (seemed like
> > b-fish were plural here).
> > Sybil said she saw one bananafish with 6 bananas in
> > its mouth while she was
> > with Seymour.
> >
> > So you're saying that since the b-fish had 6,
> > instead of 78, bananas in its
> > mouth, it may escape?
> >
> > Yeah, maybe ;). I can see that.
> >
> > I could see Seymour kissing Sybil's feet both
> > because she allowed him a way of
> > escape (I think identifying Seymour with the
> > bananafish is almost a foregone
> > conclusion...we need to look somewhere for the
> > reason for Seymour's suicide),
> > or just because he was pleased that she was entering
> > his imaginative world.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> > midge immington wrote:
> >
> > > Hi!
> > >
> > > I'm not saying that six nor 78 per se are
> > symbolic.
> > > What I think is interesting is that Sybil first
> > says
> > > re the tigers "only six" in response to Seymour's
> > "so
> > > many". Then in the bananafish scene, he refers to
> > 78
> > > as an example of the tragedy of the bananafish
> > getting
> > > trapped and not being able to get out. When Sybil
> > > sees the bananafish it is again six. In both
> > cases
> > > she's offering an opposing view to his. (There is
> > the
> > > constancy of the child with six.) This
> > bananafish
> > > will be able to get out--after all, she sees 6
> > bananas
> > > not 78. If at one level Seymour is the
> > bananafish, he
> > > then realizes he will be able to escape his
> > dilemma of
> > > being trapped--hence the kiss.
> > >
> > > Bye!
> > > Midge
> > >
> > > --- Jim Rovira <jrovira@drew.edu> wrote:
> > > > ok, what? What I see is wordplay :). Sybil
> > said
> > > > she saw six tigers. For
> > > > that reason, she then said she saw a bananafish
> > with
> > > > six bananas in her
> > > > mouth. What does the number do beyond provide a
> > > > basis for wordplay in
> > > > Seymour/Sybil's dialog?
> > > >
> > > > What, then, is the point of a single bananafish
> > > > eating as many as "78"
> > > > bananas? Rather than running to a Kabbalistic
> > > > interpretation of 78, common
> > > > sense tells me that everyone's just pulling
> > numbers
> > > > out of their heads :).
> > > >
> > > > There's no point is saying "it has to mean
> > > > something" unless you can say
> > > > what that something is, and give specific
> > reasons
> > > > for linking that specific
> > > > something to Salinger or the story.
> > > >
> > > > It's not enough to just say that Salinger read a
> > > > source. He read a lot
> > > > :). That doesn't mean everything he read
> > influenced
> > > > every story he wrote.
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > > > midge immington wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim Rovira <jrovira@drew.edu> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My point was not that the number was
> > > > absolutely insignificant,
> > > > > but we need
> > > > > to consider the possibility that it may
> > be.
> > > > And that, if we are
> > > > > going to
> > > > > make associations, they can't be random
> > or
> > > > simply guided by our
> > > > > own
> > > > > imagination -- Salinger himself would
> > have to
> > > > give us reasons
> > > > > for that
> > > > > association. Sticking to the context of
> > the
> > > > story, the number 6
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > seem to recur, so it's not given any
> > > > significance that way.
> > > > >
> > > > > ***
> > > > > Hi!
> > > > >
> > > > > "I thought they'd never stop. I never
> > saw so
> > > > many tigers."
> > > > >
> > > > > "There were only six," Sybil said.
> > > > >
> > > > > "*Only* six!" said the young man. "Do
> > you
> > > > call that *only*?"
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [two pages later Seymour says]:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Why, I've known some bananafish to swim
> > into
> > > > a banana hole and
> > > > > eat as many as seventy-eight bananas."
> > > > >
> > > > > [next page]:
> > > > >
> > > > > "I just saw one."
> > > > >
> > > > > "Saw what, my love?"
> > > > >
> > > > > "A bananafish."
> > > > >
> > > > > "My God, no!" said the young man. "Did he
> > > > have any bananas in
> > > > > his mouth?"
> > > > >
> > > > > "Yes," said Sybil. "Six."
> > > > >
> > > > > The young man suddenly picked up one of
> > > > Sybil's wet feet, which
> > > > > were drooping over the end of the float,
> > and
> > > > kissed the arch.
> > > > >
> > > > > ***
> > > > >
> > > > > Something's going on!
> > > > >
> > > > > --Midge
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
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