Subject: Re: My last post regarding 13th Gen issues......
From: Lisa M. Rabey (lisar@net-link.net)
Date: Fri Mar 07 1997 - 20:51:13 GMT
Nothing like getting the last word in eh Andrew?
<snip>
>
>No need to apologize Lisa, your reactionary reasoning and unsupported
>claims are always welcome on this list. :-)
Reactionary and unsupported? HAHAHA.
And what you claim as intelligence and reasoning is merely tripe Andrew.
Get over the ego problem.
>
>> > On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Andrew Kennis wrote:
>> >
>> > > 20% of our generation is in poverty. We receive the least amount of
>> > > funding from the public sector out of all generations.
>>
>> This is incorrect. First off, taxes are a 'public sector'. (if I am wrong,
>> then do correct me).
>
>Um, no. Taxes are only one funding source, albeit a significant one, of
>the public sector.
You just contradicted yourself. You said I was wrong, but then say that
Taxes are public sector. I gave one example, not obviously all. But you
said that 'our' generation receieves nothing from this sector, or an
insignificant amount, and that is wrong.
> There are many other funding sources for the public
>sector. Like what, you ask? Well, bus fees, subway fees, lotto revenues,
>speeding ticket revenues, there's a ton of 'em. Some of those that I just
>listed were small sources and some big ones.
Most of these monies gets tied back to the where they came from. Parking
tickest and all that good stuff help towards funding the police department
and what not. Bus fees and subway fees (if you live in a big enough city)
go right back into the taking care of
>Most of them though, of
>course, are expenses that are rarely noted, and also are ones that fall
>on the backs of the poor.
Moot point. Our fees, taxes, and what not usually and generally go right
back into the pot. What do you think the police office, subway system, park
volunteers and what not get the money to exist? From these fee's.
>
>> Now, more then ever, it is much easier to get on welfare and stay on
>> welfare.
>>
>
>Wrong again, Lisa. Now, it is harder than ever to receive the support
>that our shreaded safety net is supposed to provide. Were you around when
>President Clinton and the extremist Congress teamed up to end the 60 year
>committment to keep innocent children from starving in the streets? I
>sure as hell was. In fact, I was protesting on the White House lawn
>against that crap.
No, not wrong again. I have friends who -thought- that it was easier to get
pregnant, get on welfare then go to college and make something of
themselves. They are living off my tax dollars right now. Get with the real
world Andrew. You may be protesting it on the white house lawn, but I am
living it.
>It's funny though, the reason why they passed that
>legislation was purely political and aimed at getting people like you to
>not think of the government as a source of hand outs anymore. Apparently,
>not even the most political and cruel legislation against kids can
>achieve this, as people like you still perpetuate false notions
>concerning welfare.
Any time someone says 'people like you' i divalidate their argument. You
are generalizing and being totally irrational. I don't think the
government is a source of handouts for me personally, but I sure as hell
know a lot of people that do and are living proof. Welfares new laws is the
five year plan, where the person who is on welfare has X amount of time to
get their ass together. But, unfortunately, I know people who have gotten
around this law. There are ways you know. Not everyone was born with a
silver spoon in their mouth, such as what you are indicating you were.
>
>
>> I know many welfare recievers who make more per month with
>> their checks and their foodstamps then I do. Plus with the rent
>> allotication (In some instances, Welfare will pay for your rent and
>> utils), it is also easier for them to afford to live and exist.
>>
>
>Yes, yes, yes, every single reactionary and well off person I know who
>rails on welfare recipients claims to have this personal experience which
>they like to think as some sort of revelation.
First off, I made $6000 dollars last year. That is below poverty line.
Theoretically, if it were not for the fact I was in school and having aid
at the time, I would have cease to exist. Do not talk to me about
"reactionary" or "being well off". MY car is 10 years old and is getting
to be on its last legs. I had to move back home becuase I could not afford
to pay my rent. I am in debt to my teeth with school loans, and I have not
even graduated yet. I also went to a inner city school where what I was
talking WAS happening and it was not something I saw once. So don't give me
this bull about what I do not know what I am speaking about, at least get
the facts first before you distort them.
> The strangest thing about
>this argument, is that even if one accepts your false terms, it is still
>very easy to show how utterly innane your final analysis is. If people
>are opting for welfare money, instead of getting minimum wage jobs (the
>jobs that people like you so often complain that the welfare recipients
>should take, i.e. "work at McDonald's or something, they're hiring!"),
Okay, first off your wrong. I never insuiated anything about anyone about
doing anything of the sort. You are making WILD accusations and you are, as
always, wrong.
First off, I don't care what the person does to get off of welfare, as long
as they do! But, why should they accept a job, NO MATTER WHAT IT IS, if
its not going to pay the rent, food, put clothes on their back, et al. The
problem is that Welfare takes care of all these, and only requires the
person to work TWENTY HOURS A WEEK. Thats it. The govenremant is paying for
part or all of rent, and part or all utils. Oh please. Its a nice set of
digs. Welfare is okay for temp situations, but too many people make a
living out of it, and they revel in this fact. There are a lot of jobs out
there if you look, and I am not talking about just basic McDonaldland jobs
either. But it is, more then annoying, when I have college education,
(though no degree), and a semi decent job, struggle to make ends meat, and
people are living off of my taxes dollars, not doing anything to improve
themselves or their lives.
<major tripe cut>
Your little song and dance was amusing, and then I read the rest of your
post. How did you get all that from me saying that our generation is pretty
much worthless? No where anywhere, did I even go on about welfare or any of
the such thing nor rant and rave about it. I did mention the fact of what
few of my friends did, because to THEM IT WAS EASIER THEN PUTTING
THEMSELVES THROUGH COLLEGE. That is =them=, not -me-. We, the generation of
here and now, DO HAVE a lot of oppurtunities, BUT! we are not taking
advantage of them. We are, and this includes myself to, basically lazy.
And I am going to cut the rest of the socialistic propoganda that you love
to sprout.
<more tripe cut>
>
>> With college its the same thing. Just about anybody, can get a loan,
>> and if you are independent or over the age of 24, you are allotocated
>> more monies to live off on.
>>
>
>Beautiful. I heard this same crap at the Heritage Foundation last summer.
>I couldn't believe what I was hearing.........actual, serious comparisons
>of welfare to student loans. What did they call it? They called student
>loans and financial aid, welfare. They could see no reason why lazy Gen
>X'ers couldn't simply get a minimum wage job and fund their own way
>through college.
Let see, I made 6000 last year. After paying rent, utils, insurance, food,
et al, i had -X amount of dollars. Hmm..without finincial aid, I would not
have been able to pay for school.
Was I lazy?
Not about my education I wasn't. Stop the tripe Andrew, this is, laughable
at best.
>Do you subscribe to this notion too, Lisa? Do you think
>that the one of the few industrialized Democracies that charges
>inordinate costs for higher education, should now cut student loans and
>financial aid on the basis that it is uneeded "wellfare" (yes, they love
>th is term) for lazy young people? How disgusting. How utterly
>disgusting. And how reactionary.
I am in debt to my teeth with college loans, and I love it. Because I know,
that someday its not going to be this bad. I know that i worked my ass off
to get a degree and make something for myself. Which is, unlike a lot of
people, no matter WHAT generation. I woudl rather be broke and poor now
then work at the same job day in day out for 30 years, with no hope.
This just means they do not have as rich as parents as you and
>even if they did get jobs....it means that a pathetic non-living wage on
>a part time basis is simply not enough to pay for college.
Ohh yes, someone who had put me in the elite. Sorry Andrew, but I am paying
for college, not my parents. They have not contributed a dime towards my
educations, but my fiances were so bad, that I had to move home.
>
>> BUT! The catchall here is that because of how simple it is to get: credit
>> cards loans, its no wonder we are in debt! Its incredibley easy to rack
up
>> the bills, but even though we are making better money now, no way to pay it
>> off. Its a vicious cycle. Especially for those who are in college and are
>> lured by all the lovely deals that the credit companies give.
>>
>
>Er, sure Lisa, the government is in debt because credit card companies
>are taking advantage of stupid and lazy college students, not because or
>irresponsible appropriations by politicians who could give a damn about
>the 13th generation inheriting their mess.
Not talking about stupid and lazy college students. The ages 18-24 are the
most caterd in the advertisment industry because demographics show that we
have the most money to burn. Because majority of that population IS IN
COLLEGE, and even if they are not, credit card companies love to give out
credit cards and racking in their intrest rates. Hell, when I was 18, and
NOT in school, I got 5 of them at the drop of hat. Its not big problem to
get a card.
>
>Seriously, I do agree with your claims that credit card companies are
>ruthless and exploit college students, but I certainly do not agree with
>the claim that our age group is richer now than 10 years before. I would
>take the time to prove you wrong quickly by checking some sources out,
>but you made the claim, so I challenge you to substantiate this with some
>evidence and some sound sources.
You agree with me, but you want to discredit me?
Another circular reasoning. Okay, makes sense.
<more tripe cut>
>
>> But, the plus side of this, is that we are no longer 'stuck' in staying in
>> at one place anymore. With the advent of technology, its now possible to
>> change careers to whatever the current market trend is. If someone is not
>> multi-faceted enough to do this that is their own job suicide.
>>
>
>Uhhh, no, this isn't totally unsubstantiated or anything. Where do you
>get the impression that transportation costs are down?
>Where do you get
>the impression that they are more accessible to the general public? I can
>tell you with certainty, air travel is not cheap nor cheaper than days
>past.
HAHAHAHAH, ohh your good. First off, I never mention transportation costs.
Again, another tripe point.
The point is, if you would really, read, is that 20 years ago, when you
went to college, and you got a degree, or hell, if you worked somewhere, it
was basically, generally thought of, that you would stay at the job forever
(until retirement).
And in the last 10 years, research have shown, with the corportate
downsizing, and with the newe TECHOLOGY that is coming our way, people are
changing careers more then once or twice over their adult life times. This
is what I meant, and if you can't swim in the pond, and like you said, have
a more global realistic view on the job market, then you are pretty much SOL.
>
>As far as your changing careers thing goes....yes, more people are
>changing careers, but it's not by choice Lisa. Because of changing
>technology, job security is practically non-existent and it is that
>people are getting *forced* out of fields and jobs, not that people are
>willingly and enjoyable bouncing around from job to job.
You just stated what I just said, in your own words. Gee, aint life grand :)
>
>> >> Four companies, Time Warner, Westinghouse, Disney/CAP Cities, and GE
own
>> >> basically the whole entertainment front (well over 70% of the market).
>> >> The environment continues to sour.
>>
>> This is speculation. Where are your resources for this?
>>
>
>Where are my resources? I'm going to assume you meant *sources* on this
>one. For, if you didn't mean sources and meant resources, I have no idea
>what the hell you are talking about.
In english, WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS INFORMATION FROM!?
You just quoted lines of stuff not pretainting to the argument. I asked
you for information on your sources on who owns what, and you give me
statistics on children vs the eldery in luxemburg? More tripe.
>> And the enviroment has continued to imporve with all the recycling that
>> ppl are doing to save the earth and with componies and individuals
>> becoming more enviromentally aware. A trend? No, not with the ozone,
>> more like off to a good start of keep the earth clean.
>>
>>
>
>Has the environment improved? Yes, a little. Are we still miles behind
>where we need to be? Yes, definitely. Is Europe laughing at us and how we
>constantly give in to corporate manipulation and false notions about
>environmental regulations? Yes, they are. Are they, resultingly, far
>ahead of us in environmental protection? Yup.
>
We are, not Europe, last I checked, and again, that is speculation.
>>
>> EH?
>>
>> There are plenty of job oppurtunties. THe one huge problem I have with -my-
>> generation is that its so damn lost. Everythign was force feed to us
>> growing up, and with ppl getting out of college, what do they do? Move back
>> home with mommy and daddy, whining about how horrible everything is, while
>> sitting on their useless degree, not doing anything about improving their
>> own life or their own future. That is their own damn fault. No one asked
>> them to get a degree in basket weaving now did they?
>>
>>
>
>Oh I see Lisa, what job you get is totally based on what you got your
>degree in. Is that why only one in ten people have a job related to their
>major Lisa? As much as you hate to believe it Lisa, the reason why so
>many *13'ers* are forced to live with their fucked up parents whom I
>assure you, they are not in love with, is because there are no jobs out
>there Lisa! Not even for those with graduate degrees, as I noted, there
>are more and more unemployed PhD holders with each year. Your assumption
>that everybody in our generation is lazy and stupid and how you buy into
>the media and elder generational stereotypes of us is sickening.
>Downright sickening. The strangest thing about you doing this and Sasha
>as well, is that both of you are seemingly 13'ers. This begs the
>question.....are you two like, virtuous exceptions to the rule? Do you
>think of yourselves this way too? If not, that's a pretty conceited
>viewpoint, in my opinion. To me, that's like saying "everybody in my
>generation is stupid, and lazy, and whiney, and irrational, and have
>basket weaving degrees, and stay home with Mom and Dad all the time to
>get a free ride, and get welfare checks, and don't vote, and are just
>totally worthless............EXCEPT me, I'm the exception". Mm hmm. Sure
>you two are.
Hmmm..well lets see. I am English major. I do not have my degree yet. BUT!
I am now working for an ISP doing techsupport. I can do the following things:
Freelance for magazines.
Freelance for newspapers.
Intenet consulting.
PC consulting.
Web design.
Freelance for graphix.
Plus scads of things I am sure.
I made my own oppurtunties. And I made myself available to other companies
looking for people like me. I am also making sure that I don't get left
behind in the big reality that is going to happen (according to you)
>Er, Lisa? Did you know that only 15% of this country owns a personal
>computer at their home?
BZZT!
Wrong answer.
The number is at 35% and growing. The internet is a hot place, and that is
why I am glad to be riding the wave. Only 16% of those PURCHASING
computers actually know what to do with them.
Okay, I cut out more tripe, because I was alternating between laughing and
not really wanting to bore anyone else on this list with silly, invalid
arguments.
<more tripe>
The problem with this letter, and the majority of the letters that you have
written in the past Andrew, is that you have gone ahead and twisted
everything to show your lack of, or for a better word, loss of reality.
You have taken everything I have said, and argued about old ladies in
whichita and dying kids in luxemburg. STAY ON TOPIC. The problem with YOU
is that your socialistic ideals are getting the way of reality. Everyone
should take care of each other, and the world would be a happier place
right, and then we would all join hands with cokes and sing "I like to be...".
WRONG!
THe main topic and post of this conversation, and which I butted my nose
into, was relating to and pretaining to GENERATION X, and how I saw things
as well as responding to your letter and sashas letter that I have gotten
in my email
Now, another problem with you, is that if someone does not agree with you,
or your propgenda (which, is what you were sprouting), I suddenly had a
silver spoon in my mouth, mommy and daddy were paying for my education, and
i was also a reactionary.
You fling information about sources that have no relevence to the cause,
and expect people to believe you?
Uhh..
I think not.
And heaven forbid that someone disagree's with you right?
They become "Reactionary" and gee what else, "livign in their own little
bubble?"
To me that is ad honimeum arguments, where if you can't say anythign nice,
you will use insults to amke you sound half way intelligent.
>
>
>Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
>
>I'm sorry Lisa, but your views stink of snobbism.
Call me an elitist?
Okay :) Only nice thing you said in this whole letter :)
PS: If my spelling is to die for, im pissed off and don't have spell check
running on this machine. So if it discredits my arguments, then that is
your personal opinion. I did warn :)
Lisa M. Rabey
NetLink Systems, LLC
Tech Support and Web Design
http://www.net-link.net/~lisar
******************************
-
To remove yourself from the bananafish list, send the command:
unsubscribe bananafish
in the body of a message to "Majordomo@mass-usr.com".
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b25 : Mon Oct 09 2000 - 14:59:59 GMT