Re: Burning Pain

AntiUtopia@aol.com
Fri, 05 Nov 1999 22:25:44 -0500 (EST) 

In a message dated 11/5/99 8:54:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, Akane574@cs.com 
writes:

<< i wonder...is it better to be jaded or naive? >>

Notice I'm replying to Lauren, not Japhe.  That way I can reply and keep my 
promise to myself. :)  I'm not arguing with you, Japhe.  No one is going to 
stop you from doing what you want.  What do you care what I think?  It feels 
right, Japhe, it must be right.  Go -- call her.  What are you waiting for?  

I have a better question.  Who are you trying to convince?    

Good question, Lauren (P.S. You're very perceptive.  I didn't mean the crown 
of thorns thing to reflect on you.  I don't think I've ever detected a note 
of self pity in anything you've ever said.  I personally think you're an 
absolute blast.  There is hope for children of divorce if they come out like 
you sometimes).  I like William Blake's take on the thing.  You start out 
naive (innocence), become jaded (experience), then move past that to a state 
... uhm ... something like "wise innocence."  

What I really believe isn't necessarily all that jaded, however.  Let me try 
to describe the progression here in the context of our discussion now.

Innocence: It's pretty easy (as a young man) to make much of being confided 
in by a (somewhat) older woman (who's still just a very large child herself 
-- but really, for all that matter, she may be a woman your age or younger.  
It doesn't matter).  Easy to develop an exaggerated sense of the real 
intimacy that's taking place, etc. **Especially** if you're having sex.  Boy 
does that complicate things.  

Experience: And then you move through all that and you find out it really 
wasn't as deep and meaningful as you once thought -- really, she would talk 
to **anyone** that was there and willing to listen.  And that the real rush 
was the feeling of closeness itself, not the closeness "to that particular 
person."  I mean, when the crisis is over and the two of you are together 
with nothing but the two of you (and not your pain in common) -- do you have 
a lot to talk about then?  You don't get to find out until the crisis is 
over, of course.  That's the rub :)  

Wise Innocence: Once you've seen what's been really happening you're in a 
position to develop a relationship based upon real intimacy -- based on 
something other than one another's need and hurt.  You find someone that you 
have **strengths** in common with.  Now That's a beautiful thing.  It really 
happens sometimes too.  It's worth taking risks for, and worth waiting for.  
When you're grown up enough to be ready for this kind of relationship, you 
don't feel so needy.  See, that's because you've become honest about your own 
strengths.  You feel good about them, are at ease with them, so are able to 
relate to another person on that level.  By this point you're even OK being 
alone for awhile, in fact.  That's because you don't need another person to 
make you feel worth a Feces.  You know you are.  You're not intimidated by 
others, so you're now able to really love them.  Ah...my heart warms at the 
thought of it :)  

That's the point at which I am optimistic and not jaded, etc. . .

But, eh, it's not like I have any Experience with this sort of thing ;)

Jim

P.S.  We were talking about the "innocence" vs. the "experience" perspectives 
(though not in those terms) in my Irish Lit class last week.  The innocent 
knows "a" woman, the experienced knows "women." :)  But I do think you can go 
back to knowing "a" woman again after that. . .and it means more than it ever 
did before.