Re: Burning Pain

citycabn (citycabn@gateway.net)
Mon, 08 Nov 1999 12:31:41 -0800 

Jim,

What a wise post. I really could have used it in 1973, when I was all of 22
and she was 33 with three children.

But, God, what a  poet she was!

--Bruce


-----Original Message-----
From: AntiUtopia@aol.com
>
<< i wonder...is it better to be jaded or naive?

>  I like William Blake's take on the thing.  You start out
>naive (innocence), become jaded (experience), then move past that to a
state
>... uhm ... something like "wise innocence."
>
>What I really believe isn't necessarily all that jaded, however.  Let me
try
>to describe the progression here in the context of our discussion now.
>
>Innocence: It's pretty easy (as a young man) to make much of being confided
>in by a (somewhat) older woman (who's still just a very large child herself
>-- but really, for all that matter, she may be a woman your age or younger.
>It doesn't matter).  Easy to develop an exaggerated sense of the real
>intimacy that's taking place, etc. **Especially** if you're having sex.
Boy
>does that complicate things.
>
>Experience: And then you move through all that and you find out it really
>wasn't as deep and meaningful as you once thought -- really, she would talk
>to **anyone** that was there and willing to listen.  And that the real rush
>was the feeling of closeness itself, not the closeness "to that particular
>person."  I mean, when the crisis is over and the two of you are together
>with nothing but the two of you (and not your pain in common) -- do you
have
>a lot to talk about then?  You don't get to find out until the crisis is
>over, of course.  That's the rub :)
>
>Wise Innocence: Once you've seen what's been really happening you're in a
>position to develop a relationship based upon real intimacy -- based on
>something other than one another's need and hurt.  You find someone that
you
>have **strengths** in common with.  Now That's a beautiful thing.  It
really
>happens sometimes too.  It's worth taking risks for, and worth waiting for.
>When you're grown up enough to be ready for this kind of relationship, you
>don't feel so needy.  See, that's because you've become honest about your
own
>strengths.  You feel good about them, are at ease with them, so are able to
>relate to another person on that level.  By this point you're even OK being
>alone for awhile, in fact.  That's because you don't need another person to
>make you feel worth a Feces.  You know you are.  You're not intimidated by
>others, so you're now able to really love them.  Ah...my heart warms at the
>thought of it :)
>
>That's the point at which I am optimistic and not jaded, etc. . .
>
>But, eh, it's not like I have any Experience with this sort of thing ;)
>
>Jim
>
>P.S.  We were talking about the "innocence" vs. the "experience"
perspectives
>(though not in those terms) in my Irish Lit class last week.  The innocent
>knows "a" woman, the experienced knows "women." :)  But I do think you can
go
>back to knowing "a" woman again after that. . .and it means more than it
ever
>did before.
>