Re: BANANAFISH digest 295
eddy1 (eddy1@pop.bart.nl)
Wed, 08 Apr 1998 19:42:51 +0200
----------
> Van: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
> Aan: Discussions of J.D. Salinger's work <bananafish@lists.nyu.edu>
> Onderwerp: BANANAFISH digest 295
> Datum: woensdag 8 april 1998 10:00
>
> BANANAFISH Digest 295
>
> Topics covered in this issue include:
>
> 1) Gone Bananafishing. Back Soon.
> by Colbourne <colby@online.net.pg>
> 2) pynchon
> by WILL HOCHMAN <hochman@uscolo.edu>
> 3) Re: sighunctific rigger
> by TheSecretGoldfish <lime6@rocketmail.com>
> 4) Re: Raise High.. long, on-topic
> by WILL HOCHMAN <hochman@uscolo.edu>
> 5) Re: Raise High.. long, on-topic
> by Mattis Fishman <mattis@argos.argoscomp.com>
> 6) Re: Raise High.. long, on-topic
> by WILL HOCHMAN <hochman@uscolo.edu>
> 7) Re: Raise High the Roof
> by Brendan McKennedy <suburbantourist@hotmail.com>
> 8) Re: Raise High the Roof
> by Brendan McKennedy <suburbantourist@hotmail.com>
> 9) Re: hello
> by Brendan McKennedy <suburbantourist@hotmail.com>
> 10) Re: Raise High.. long, on-topic
> by Brendan McKennedy <suburbantourist@hotmail.com>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 22:27:26 +1000
> From: Colbourne <colby@online.net.pg>
> To: Bananafish <bananafish@lists.nyu.edu>
> Subject: Gone Bananafishing. Back Soon.
> Message-ID: <352A1BAA.5BBA9040@online.net.pg>
>
> There's an interesting book on synchronicity called 'There are no
> accidents' by Robert Hopcke. In some ways I'm quite sceptical though.
> Whatever the case, I'm going to Cairns for 8 days on Holiday, and I just
> hope that somebody doesn't slap me smack bang in Room 507. Suffer the
> little wallpaper.
>
> I shall spend the majority of my holidays in the admittedly absurd urban
> camouflage fatigues necessary to carry a copy of each of my Salinger
> gems in individual pockets.
>
> Don't nobody think of anything too interesting or insightful until I get
> back. From now on I am no longer, Godot. My name is Brad Colbourne.
> People call me Brad Colbourne. Perhaps, under the psychological guise of
> the pseudonym I have masked my true self. So now I am me. Goddamit. I
> hope it's not too touchy-feely, though it clearly is, for me to just
> break down into electronic tears and declare between sobs that 'I love
> you guys. No, I really mean it. I love you guys'. Anyway, the interior
> decorators have arrived with well-received suggestions of 'rubber
> wallpaper' and I dare not interrupt their attempts at progress any
> longer. I'm still thinking very hard, and I especially like what Malcs
> once said about the dancing. I leave you for 8 days, amongst the
> bananas, with the carefully altered comment:
>
> Why, I, in this weak piping time of peace,
> Have no delight to pass away the time,
> Unless to spy my shadow in the sun
> And descant on mine own conformity.
>
>
>
>
> Brad (formerly Godot)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 09:23:10 -0600 (MDT)
> From: WILL HOCHMAN <hochman@uscolo.edu>
> To: Bananafish <bananafish@lists.nyu.edu>
> Subject: pynchon
> Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980407092253.5112L-100000@meteor.uscolo.edu>
>
> http://www.kcl.ac.uk/humanities/cch/PIPS/ipwlon.html
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:21:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: TheSecretGoldfish <lime6@rocketmail.com>
> To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
> Subject: Re: sighunctific rigger
> Message-ID: <19980407172153.13488.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com>
>
>
> ---Tim O'Connor <tim@roughdraft.org> wrote:
>
> > Has anyone else a comment to make on it? Or are
> Scottie and I the only
> > ones who have run into the brick walls of getting
> the brain to do what
> > people think it's supposed to do? I ask this with
> genuine curiosity. I
> > can never get enough of honest reactions.
>
> unqualified and unorganized answer:
>
> pump someone up on something like heroin(and keep
> them on it) and sure they won't notice how crappy
> their life is. if the problem is with a chemical
> imbalance (which i'm not quite sure but i don't think
> all mental illnesses are) then the best treatment may
> be therapeutic drugs. but it shouldn't end there.
> it's like a virus that causes your eyes to cloud over
> so you go to "doctor" and have your eyes unclouded
> then they cloud over again and you go have them
> unclouded again and this goes on until "doctor"
> decides the best thing to do (though S/He does this
> because your insurance won't cover any more eye
> uncloudings) is to just take out your eyes. there. no
> more eye cloudings! the dull point is that just
> because a chemical imbalance is causing the noticed
> mental illness doesn't mean that the chemical
> imbalance itself is at the bottom of the pyre.(amid)
> kindof like Bio-feedback. something other than
> chemicals could be causeing mental distress which in
> turn causes a chemical inbalance. i don't think that
> we should just treat the specific chemical imbalance
> but treat the entire person. i for one would rather
> feel something than be numbed by drugs. though i
> suspect if drugged competently i wouldn't object
> anylonger. i would also want to be dissatisfied with
> my life and say "i am going to change things" and
> then change the world or my life and then be able to
> say "i like this" than know my life is crap, take
> some drug and go directly to "i like this" because i
> am confused by a new mental illness called drug
> therapy. if you find a magic lamp and the genie says
> " i give you one wish for dollar twenty five per
> minute " and you pay and say "make me happy" and like
> all genies who insist on being smart asses tricks you
> by making you an idiot who can only nod and smile
> wouldn't you have been better off saying "change the
> world to make me happy" (assuming s/he doesn't just
> fill the air with nitrous oxide) or better off just
> saying no thanks jack, using the dollar twenty five
> to buy a salinger novel and reading it by the light
> of an old lamp you found.
>
> not very solid, but
> .
> paul.
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 11:46:47 -0600 (MDT)
> From: WILL HOCHMAN <hochman@uscolo.edu>
> To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
> Subject: Re: Raise High.. long, on-topic
> Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980407114221.15642Z-100000@meteor.uscolo.edu>
>
> Not only is learning from content wise as mattis suggest, but I was truly
> taken with his prose and enjoyed the following screen as much as any I've
> been lucky enough to find on bananafish--thanks mattis, will
>
> On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Mattis Fishman wrote:
>
> >
> > While I'm at it, and way down here at the bottom, I would like to
add
> > to the number of categories of Salinger-readers/list-participants.
Besides
> > those writers sitting in the front row to see which sleeve El Salingeri
pulls
> > his literary gems from, and those of us so involved in the virtual
lives
> > of our heros that we would pay good money for the contents of one of
> > Seymour's used handkerchiefs or Holden's hunting hat (I do not mean to
deride
> > anyone here, being, like Schrodinger's poor cat, in both those groups
myself.
> > Furthermore, and this is directed at the person who originally made a
similar
> > distinction between our members, I really am aware that you were not
trying
> > to place an upper limit on the various types of possible reading
experiences.
> > I simply am using this as an introduction to my own addition, to
follow.)
> > I highly doubt that I am the only one who reads in order to learn
something.
> > After finishing "Goldilocks and the Three Bears" I was ready to avoid
sleeping
> > in strange beds at all costs. Well, for me, the lesson I see in RHTRBC,
which
> > I do not care to articulate here, has taken me 25 years so far to
assimilate,
> > and may take another 25, but was worth the price of admission.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 14:45:46 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Mattis Fishman <mattis@argos.argoscomp.com>
> To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
> Subject: Re: Raise High.. long, on-topic
> Message-ID: <199804071845.OAA155762@argos.argoscomp.com>
>
>
> Will was kind enough to write:
> >Not only is learning from content wise as mattis suggest, but I was
truly
> >taken with his prose and enjoyed the following screen as much as any
I've
> >been lucky enough to find on bananafish--thanks mattis, will
>
> While I am not modest enough to not enjoy a compliment, (thanks again,
Will)
> I feel slightly as though someone had just taken a long look at my resume
> only to comment on the quality of the typesetting. I would be even more
> appreciative if anyone wants to follow up on the comparison between
APDFBF
> and RHTRBC.
>
> all the best,
> Mattis
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 13:49:21 -0600 (MDT)
> From: WILL HOCHMAN <hochman@uscolo.edu>
> To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
> Subject: Re: Raise High.. long, on-topic
> Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980407134643.19412C-100000@meteor.uscolo.edu>
>
> ah mattis "intent on the inward qualities, he loses sight of the
> external"...I was praising your comparison you silly stallion, william
>
> On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Mattis Fishman wrote:
>
> >
> > Will was kind enough to write:
> > >Not only is learning from content wise as mattis suggest, but I was
truly
> > >taken with his prose and enjoyed the following screen as much as any
I've
> > >been lucky enough to find on bananafish--thanks mattis, will
> >
> > While I am not modest enough to not enjoy a compliment, (thanks again,
Will)
> > I feel slightly as though someone had just taken a long look at my
resume
> > only to comment on the quality of the typesetting. I would be even more
> > appreciative if anyone wants to follow up on the comparison between
APDFBF
> > and RHTRBC.
> >
> > all the best,
> > Mattis
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 20:22:37 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Brendan McKennedy <suburbantourist@hotmail.com>
> To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
> Subject: Re: Raise High the Roof
> Message-ID: <19980408032237.29479.qmail@hotmail.com>
>
>
> It manages to incorporate Glass tics
> >-- some of them, the least distracting (though I confess that I love
> THOSE
> >ELEMENTS too, when I'm in that mood) -- and also be lovable and deeply
> >evocative of a time and place that is long gone.
>
>
> This is the one of the longer Glass stories--the others being F&Z and
> Seymour: AI--that I also can come back to again and again without
> getting through the first four or so pages of Buddy's narration and
> saying, "Do I really feel like putting the effort into this...? I
> already know what's going to happen..." Aside from the Glass tics, we
> are also given a lovely ensemble that, at the moment, is most
> reminiscent of the Patimkin family in Roth's "Goodbye, Columbus"...a
> deeply annoying and ceaselessly amusing cast of foreign characters, each
> possessing that distinctive characterization that won't let you forget
> them, or ever think that you know them too well.
>
> Aside from that, it's the most honest representation of Seymour that
> Buddy has given us (besides, I'm guessing, Hapworth--which I haven't
> read), and ironic that this representation is given in the absence of
> Seymour's person. His journals verge on the didactic, but we aren't
> allowed to dwell there long enough to cross that S:AI line where he
> ceases to become a character and instead becomes a lecturer on life. In
> "Carpenters", the journals are more along the lines of Holden's
> monologue, where we are less concerned with what he has to say than why,
> perhaps, he is saying it.
>
> Brendan
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 20:28:41 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Brendan McKennedy <suburbantourist@hotmail.com>
> To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
> Subject: Re: Raise High the Roof
> Message-ID: <19980408032842.16817.qmail@hotmail.com>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Brendan, you may be interested in an essay from Studies in Short
> Fiction
> > by Eberhard Alsen called "RHTRBC and the Amateur Reader." Alsen works
> from
> > the claim that RHTRBC is "the most story-like" of salinger's later,
> longer
> > fiction as well. will
>
>
> Thanks Will...unfortunately, I'm finished with the critics for awhile.
> I've spent many years away from them until last night, I decided to take
> a plunge and read the "Innocence Under Pressure" book by...oh, can't
> recall his name...and today I read a book examining the complete works
> of Sylvia Plath. The "Catcher" book was better than the Plath book, but
> only because I agreed with it more. The problem I have with the critics
> is that, when reading them, it only makes me want to go and read the
> text itself--which isn't bad, only I might as well skip the critic and
> go right to the text.
>
> I realize that your livelihood rests on these criticisms, and I
> understand the value of them to the literary community...but personally,
> I'd rather read criticism in a forum format (i.e. *here*) than have a
> critic tell me "this is this" without the ability to respond. Which is
> why, Will, I find you so valuable a contributor to this list.
>
> Brendan
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 20:31:17 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Brendan McKennedy <suburbantourist@hotmail.com>
> To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
> Subject: Re: hello
> Message-ID: <19980408033117.3229.qmail@hotmail.com>
>
>
>
>
> >Anyway, hello from London, and here's to many an interesting exchange.
> >
>
> Welcome...I envy that you've read a Salinger story that I haven't...but
> most people on this list have so it's no big deal.
>
> Brendan
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 20:44:23 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Brendan McKennedy <suburbantourist@hotmail.com>
> To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu
> Subject: Re: Raise High.. long, on-topic
> Message-ID: <19980408034424.13896.qmail@hotmail.com>
>
>
>
>
> > First, I would like to consider the story in relation to "A Perfect
> Day..."
> >What would we think of the scenario, Seymour's disappearance, the
> revelation
> >of the depth of his love for Muriel and his happiness, his eventual
> >marriage, if we did not already know what happens in the final chapter,
> >so to speak. Is there anyone who actually read RHTRBC before APDFBF?
> >>From the other direction, would anyone have considered Seymour as the
> >holy man he is finally labeled from just reading APDFBF, without this
> story?
>
>
> I'm going to have to take some more time with your post, but if you'll
> allow me to be rather waspish, I should point out right here that Buddy
> does, at the beginning of "Carpenters", tell us in his very queer,
> peripheral way that Seymour killed himself. Seymour's suicide is, I
> think, his defining moment--or rather Buddy's defining moment...Because
> everything that Seymour does has and will always lead up to his
> inexorable death, Buddy won't let us forget that for a second. I don't
> know whether anything would have changed if I had read "Carpenters"
> before "Perfect Day"... If there is a place for something like that
> *to* happen, it must be in "Carpenters", because any other of Buddy's
> Seymour dissertations regards Seymour as Dead, Long Dead, Don't Even Try
> Think of Him As Alive, He's Gone, Let's Canonize Him--while "Carpenters"
> takes Seymour out of his casket for a longer span than a Buddy
> Anecdote...in "Carpenters", Buddy lets Seymour breathe a little...but
> oddly enough (once more), we never can get our hands on Seymour in
> "Carpenters". While his journal gives us a view from the inside, he is
> so conspicuously physically absent. It would seem that Buddy, even
> while he lives his life to share Seymour with us, is subconciously
> keeping the totality of Seymour to himself.
>
> Brendan
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BANANAFISH Digest 295
> ****************************