Re: Race and class, among other things,

patrick flaherty (pfkw@email.msn.com)
Thu, 13 Aug 1998 09:12:50 -0400 

Nicely done, Andrew.
I brought up the Morrison/Salinger comparison the other day mostly because
of a television interview with Toni Morrison that was on one of those news
programs on the networks.  I'm sure some of you bananafishers must have seen
it.  Anyway, she spoke of how she has a hard time trusting white people.
She feels that most whites, in the final analysis, would "give her up."
Anyway, I was trying to make the point, like Morrison most definately did on
the interview, that race (no matter how politically in-correct this may
sound) does make a difference, a huge difference in many aspects of human
expression.  Again, well done, Andrew.  I think Morrison would agree
whole-heartedly with what you have said.

Patrick

pfkw@msn.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Charles Kennis <holden@escape.com>
To: bananafish@lists.nyu.edu <bananafish@lists.nyu.edu>
Date: Thursday, August 13, 1998 12:48 AM
Subject: Race and class, among other things, matter; even when it comes to
JDS.


>
>
>On Wed, 12 Aug 1998 Kayllie@aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Andrew - Thanks tons for clarifying. I'm sure you are quite right about
the
>> racial diversity of this list. Somehow your skepticism made me feel
excluded;
>> as if my presence on this list is invalidated because I'm not a WASP, but
I'm
>> making it a goal in life to let stuff like that go because trying to
correct
>> people's perceptions takes more time and energy that i'm willing to
devote to
>> it.
>>
>
>My skepticism was not a source of comfort for me in any regard, for I am
>not at ease with groups that are lacking in racial and socio-economic
>diversity, despite the fact that finding people assembled of such diverse
>backgrounds is often a uneasy task. Because of this, though, the last
>thing I'd want to do is invalidate anybody who is not a WASP. Believe me,
>if we are not lacking in diversity on this list, it would be no less than
>a pleasant surprise to me.
>
>>
>> I'm not sure what high school your Aunt taught at or what her experiences
>> really were but I went a racially diverse high school in the Bronx and we
were
>> taught 'Catcher' freshman year and it was universally loved. Also, every
>> single non-white person I've ever spoken to about JDS and who is familiar
with
>> his work loves it. So this perception that "minorities" don't feel
favorably
>> towards JDS really rings wrong with me and has not been my experience.
>
>Well, I don't think I meant to imply that all or even most people with
>non-WASP backgrounds (possibly a preferable term for you?) resoundingly
>dislike JDS. However, for the many low income and poverty stricken
>non-WASPS, it seemed to me very sensible to suspect that there would a
>disinterested and/or even hostile reaction to literature smacking of
>privilidged values, language, persona, and style. The high school my Aunt
>teaches at in the Bronx is comprised mostly of children who come from
>African American descent and who come from economic backgrounds barely
>above, if not even, the poverty line. This does not guaranttee a lack of
>interest on the part of my Aunt's students in her English class, but it
>certainly is an obstacle for appreciation of JDS; an obstacle that my Aunt
>has spoken to me about on several occassions.
>
>Now, I think the barrage of responses on this thread whose authors usually
>proclaim themselves to be the exceptions proving my so called 'all
>minorities hate JDS' proclamations wrong are oversimplifying the point I
>am trying to make here. First and foremost, I never meant to imply that
>race alone is the sole factor of what literature we like or dislike.
>Even with class included, one's class and race are not the be all and end
>all of the determination of one's literary tastes. God knows there are
>other influences which account for what we like or do not like in our
>fiction endeavors (where we grew up, how our friends and siblings were
>like, as well as our parents, and finally what our interests are, are
>just a few others). Nevertheless, to deny that they have any influence at
>all is to be living in a world that does not exist. Our race and our class
>(not to mention our gender and sexuality) are very big factors (NOT the
>*only* factors, however) in the equation of our personalities, and indeed
>also have a big influence in our likes and dislikes. It decides, more
>often than not, who our spouses will be. It shapes decisions of where to
>live and go to school. It influences us on where we are willing to work.
>Surely, there is no one in this list who is completely free from the
>influence of their respective racial and socio-economic backgrounds, among
>other influences as well, like sexuality, gender, and geography. If these
>factors do not influence who and what we are at all, then which ones do? I
>believe Tim posited that simply our 'acculturation' matters, or something
>like that; to which I would respond by asking what on earth do you think
>influences how our respective experiences turn out to be? Is it, like
>the Greeks once thought, simply a matter of muses in the heavens spinning
>yarn or however the mythological tale went? Or, does the concept of
>predesination that Puritans thought highly of centuries ago make more
>sense in what determines the course of our life and who and what we
>become and are? Many people in modern times, especially those that come
>from the ranks of post-modernism have become groups of people who no
>longer fail to recognize the effects of socialization, that is the
>presence of distinct and very real sociological influences on our lives
>(and believe me, this is in no way a plug for po-mo philosophical thought
>and theory, their weakness on class influences and scary appreciation of
>cultural relativism are less than desirable for me).
>
>Sure, I can appreciate and love reading Morrison, Ellison, Hughes,
>Cisneros, Haley, and many other authors of non-WASP backgrounds. But
>there's no doubt in my mind that there are many people out there who have
>similar backgrounds to these authors who can probably appreciate and
>relate to their works in a way that I can't, possibly if not probably
>increasing the amount of enjoyment and affinity that they may have for the
>respective works. This isn't to say that there aren't some people out
>there with simliar backgrounds who do not like works by those authors as
>much as me. Such exceptions are probably glaring. But, those exceptions,
>if even in significant numbers, do not automatically disqualify a
>generalization that could still bear, a significant amount of truth.
>
>Has anybody on this list ever read 'Savage Inequalities' by Jonathan Kozol
>(detailing the horrid conditions of our inner city and rural public
>schools) and/or 'Black Like Me' (a story of a white man who disguises
>himself as a black man down south)? Such books give readers insight into
>how one's cultural and socio-economic backgrounds have enormous impact on
>us in a large number of ways. To deny such an influence, is practically to
>deny reality. We do not live in a color/gender/sexuality blind society,
>nor do we live in a classless one (and oh how so unfortunate that is); as
>such, that societal norm has an effect on all of us.....a very real and
>lasting effect, that is impossible to escape.
>
>--AK
>
>