Dear Sonny, I have to say that your post concerning list etiquette was very level headed and that you show the wonderful quality of being able to judge people in a favorable light. I think, though, that you fell into some pitfalls inadvertantly, some are inherent to mailing lists, and others to your own generous nature. Getting a little out of order, your own ebulence and self confidence lead me to believe that you are undaunted by the prospect of airing perceived slights on line. There are certainly many people who are capable of, and happy to do this, and have done so. Yet you might admit the possibility that other types of personalities might not be so ready to enter into such "dicussions" (Mom: I'm not arguing, I'm just discussing!" - some grist for the Freudian mill, by the way). Even when someone has the temerity to address a "ridiculor" on-list, you might agree that some of us would find this type of intercourse to be less than pleasant reading. By definition, this is contentiousness, often bickering, and who is to say that it doesn't lead to a full scale "peckin' party" as old R. P. McM. would have called the fracass of flying insults, excuses and explanations. Then again, there are people at the other end of the spectrum who seem to thrive on confrontation. There are reasonably few on the list, perhaps you recall our JDS imposter of a year or so ago, yet a charter which sets a mailing list as a forum for personal discussion which you advocate, is conceivably condoning and even inviting such behavior. I might even contend (if I were contentious) that as it is, we have enough of this type of behavior in the cynical, and personal (I can't spell ad hominem) postings which prompted this whole discussion. The fact that they are usually in relatively calm tones and with a sense of humor helps to let us keep it relaxed, but obviously the intent to rib is there, and who is to say whether the humor fails, or if the recipient is being touchy. These arguments are intended to address only the meta-issue of whether the list is helped or hindered by discussing these personal matters in public. As far as who insulted whom, and who is too touchy, please leave me out. I do believe that Tim, even as the list owner, is not the one to bother about agressive behavior, since his task to monitor software, not people's opinions. I admit to mentioning my own negative perception of the tone of the list (but quite a few weeks ago, Sonny) as part of a semi-regular private correspondence, and only to explain why I was more driven to write private email, in those weeks, than to post. I write this only so that you need not be intrigued by any conspiracy of the oversensitive to police our members. I can almost hear Scotty saying here "so what is your point?" and the truth is that he would be right, which is one of the things that has helped me overlook all of the nonsense. So to sum up, I would say my point is that a group of varying types of personalities is bound to get into personality clashes, yet I do not think that they should in general become a topic of discussion. I would prefer if people would try to air their greivances privately and believe that a large percentage of the time this will lead to better mutual understanding. all the best and have a nice weekend, Mattis