Subject: Re: Cheever and Salinger
From: midge immington (midgeimmington@yahoo.com)
Date: Fri Jun 21 2002 - 14:55:52 EDT
Hi!
I've known some bookbuyers to go into a bookstore and
buy as many as 78 books. (Not an unspecified number
whose purchases together total up to 78.)
I think Seymour meant one bananafish with 78 bananas.
All I'm saying is the progression of the text as
quoted at the end of this email is worth thinking
about. Obviously, Salinger did.
Bye!
Midge
--- Jim Rovira <jrovira@drew.edu> wrote:
> Ok, that's more credible, thanks. Lemme make sure I
> have the details of the
> story down right.
>
> Sybil saw 6 tigers.
> Seymour said bananafish got caught with 78 bananas
> in their mouth (seemed like
> b-fish were plural here).
> Sybil said she saw one bananafish with 6 bananas in
> its mouth while she was
> with Seymour.
>
> So you're saying that since the b-fish had 6,
> instead of 78, bananas in its
> mouth, it may escape?
>
> Yeah, maybe ;). I can see that.
>
> I could see Seymour kissing Sybil's feet both
> because she allowed him a way of
> escape (I think identifying Seymour with the
> bananafish is almost a foregone
> conclusion...we need to look somewhere for the
> reason for Seymour's suicide),
> or just because he was pleased that she was entering
> his imaginative world.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> midge immington wrote:
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > I'm not saying that six nor 78 per se are
> symbolic.
> > What I think is interesting is that Sybil first
> says
> > re the tigers "only six" in response to Seymour's
> "so
> > many". Then in the bananafish scene, he refers to
> 78
> > as an example of the tragedy of the bananafish
> getting
> > trapped and not being able to get out. When Sybil
> > sees the bananafish it is again six. In both
> cases
> > she's offering an opposing view to his. (There is
> the
> > constancy of the child with six.) This
> bananafish
> > will be able to get out--after all, she sees 6
> bananas
> > not 78. If at one level Seymour is the
> bananafish, he
> > then realizes he will be able to escape his
> dilemma of
> > being trapped--hence the kiss.
> >
> > Bye!
> > Midge
> >
> > --- Jim Rovira <jrovira@drew.edu> wrote:
> > > ok, what? What I see is wordplay :). Sybil
> said
> > > she saw six tigers. For
> > > that reason, she then said she saw a bananafish
> with
> > > six bananas in her
> > > mouth. What does the number do beyond provide a
> > > basis for wordplay in
> > > Seymour/Sybil's dialog?
> > >
> > > What, then, is the point of a single bananafish
> > > eating as many as "78"
> > > bananas? Rather than running to a Kabbalistic
> > > interpretation of 78, common
> > > sense tells me that everyone's just pulling
> numbers
> > > out of their heads :).
> > >
> > > There's no point is saying "it has to mean
> > > something" unless you can say
> > > what that something is, and give specific
> reasons
> > > for linking that specific
> > > something to Salinger or the story.
> > >
> > > It's not enough to just say that Salinger read a
> > > source. He read a lot
> > > :). That doesn't mean everything he read
> influenced
> > > every story he wrote.
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > > midge immington wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jim Rovira <jrovira@drew.edu> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My point was not that the number was
> > > absolutely insignificant,
> > > > but we need
> > > > to consider the possibility that it may
> be.
> > > And that, if we are
> > > > going to
> > > > make associations, they can't be random
> or
> > > simply guided by our
> > > > own
> > > > imagination -- Salinger himself would
> have to
> > > give us reasons
> > > > for that
> > > > association. Sticking to the context of
> the
> > > story, the number 6
> > > > doesn't
> > > > seem to recur, so it's not given any
> > > significance that way.
> > > >
> > > > ***
> > > > Hi!
> > > >
> > > > "I thought they'd never stop. I never
> saw so
> > > many tigers."
> > > >
> > > > "There were only six," Sybil said.
> > > >
> > > > "*Only* six!" said the young man. "Do
> you
> > > call that *only*?"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [two pages later Seymour says]:
> > > >
> > > > "Why, I've known some bananafish to swim
> into
> > > a banana hole and
> > > > eat as many as seventy-eight bananas."
> > > >
> > > > [next page]:
> > > >
> > > > "I just saw one."
> > > >
> > > > "Saw what, my love?"
> > > >
> > > > "A bananafish."
> > > >
> > > > "My God, no!" said the young man. "Did he
> > > have any bananas in
> > > > his mouth?"
> > > >
> > > > "Yes," said Sybil. "Six."
> > > >
> > > > The young man suddenly picked up one of
> > > Sybil's wet feet, which
> > > > were drooping over the end of the float,
> and
> > > kissed the arch.
> > > >
> > > > ***
> > > >
> > > > Something's going on!
> > > >
> > > > --Midge
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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