I see Zen as the alternative to all rational, conventional, logical everything. My thinking used to be totally as yours. I was lost trying to make some logical sense of something that completely seems free of reason. I mean a Zen master would say we are already in touch with the answers we're just bogged down in so much shit we can't see. Bare with me but to meditate is to free yourself of all the trivialities of thought. Instead of focusing in on abstract theories such as math or language or even reason itself is to break away from the structure or compartmentalization of reality. To link all the pieces. I know this is reaching and I don't always get this about Zen study but to meditate is to free your mind of thought itself. Don't get me wrong I know how dumb this sounds but think of this. You cannot have a thought or a notion or anything clear to our dumb western minds without using reason. I mean it's important right, reason is the ultimate pragmatic tool or strategy that we have. I mean what is the justification of reason itself is that it works and it has worked for me for you for Aristotle for Descartes. Even the idea of western thought vs. eastern thought or reason is another compartment of our western type of thinking. We think in language we think in patterns connections deductions inductions and all that clouds what a Zen would say is true reality. Now the statement, I think that reality, for me, on a basic and in its simplest terms without faith or a dated written dogma is the flow of immediate experience itself. So the moment of enlightenment we are trying or that anybody meditating is trying to reach is a moment of not nothingness but synthesis, a moment where the mind sees not boundries but in fact connections and an organic oneness, this is the most important point, not a mystical or fake moment but a moment of direct experience. Not experience of nothingness or anything defeating like that but of higher perspective in that one is experiencing true reality as an immediate flow of experience. So one should not think of meditation as for wackos or anything illogical like that but as for people searching for hard fact evidence in immediate awareness and experience. Now what kind of answer is that well it can be very satisfying when you think in terms of trying to reach a starting point in any kind of epistemology or metaphysic. It can be satisfying because its as close to an answer as any human can come or has come in the history of philosophy. I've been studying for five years Zen and reason and logic and all I can come up with as a true statement is that causality is inductively true and not deductively true and is near an absolute as I can find. And I personally take tons of satisfaction in that because it isn't nothingness or nihilism or subjectivism or a goofy religion where they make you shave your head and wear a red towel but it is reason it is experience and most importantly pragmatism with all its limits and faults. It can be a very solid and comfortable place and also a very trustworthy place to stand in the cosmos. I mean for me the whole Zen thing we've been talking about is just about blue prints versus reality. And what makes the whole thing so tricky is that we use the blue prints to define reality. My professor once explained it to me like this: the universe doesn't read English. I mean in contact they said math was the language of the universe. Now to a Zen that would be speaking in human blue print terms. The universe or the cosmos or reality doesn't know English Spanish or anything like that it just is and we do our best to cut it up into little edible squares like math and language and reason. But to contact true reality would be to step out of those boundries or those bubbles. And it can be done right I mean we all thought the earth was flat until we broke that boundary. We all thought the earth was the center of the galaxy, we broke that boundary. I guess I'm trying to say is that this thinking along a Zens frame of mind is as exciting and clear as it is frustrating. Now for Salinger, he did a great job of translating this thinking, (as well as Hinduism which he was really into (Teddy) but I'm not so much into because it leaves the realm of science or fact and leans toward illogical prayer and dogma) in that he made it seeable or real if you will in the fictive space of his stories. I hope this helps. Suerte John Paul