Subject: Re: Reference to JDS by Paul Thomas Anderson
From: Jim Rovira (jrovira@drew.edu)
Date: Thu May 09 2002 - 09:17:34 EDT
Ugh. People have NO respect for their own minds to begin with, then read
Salinger who pathetically gives us plenty of excuse to make that a virtue.
It's funny, Micaela, that you decry analysis then go on to provide a pretty
nice analysis yourself :). If it's all about a feeling, then talk about a
feeling. Describe the feeling. Tell us where the feeling comes from and
why.
Which you did quite nicely, thank you very much :).
I really like the idea that the elevator scene is very much about those
awkward moments in elevators. But Seymour was being a rude. There's
nothing heroic or spiritual about making other people feel uncomfortable
for no reason at all. No one really owes us honesty about their feelings
unless we give them a reason to be honest, then make it safe for them to be
honest.
I wouldn't be surprised if the elevator scene reinforced, for Seymour, the
idea that he didn't really belong in adult company, in an adult world, and
therefore provided just a bit more impetus for him to kill himself. He
felt self conscious around adults (esp. around adults who didn't seem like
large children to begin with -- which may explain his attraction to
seemingly vain, empty women), but comfortable and confident with children.
I also wouldn't be surprised if this is the product of growing up as the
oldest child in a large family. He's esteemed by the young, has been all
his life, but when he gets around adults he's suddenly uncertain.
Given the context provided by Muriel's earlier phone conversation, I think
we're supposed to read the elevator scene as foreshadowing an impending
doom of some sorts -- the scene is supposed to show us that Seymour is
indeed a little bit unhinged. Yes, he was touching with the little girl.
But around adults he falls apart. Something's wrong.
Jim
"LR Pearson, Arts 99" wrote:
>
> Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!
>
> ...Salinger's stories
> > are making us go beyond our apple-ish analyses and try to get to a point
> > where we can grasp what he is saying without TRYING. I know that this is
> > completely tangential, but when the woman in the elevator looks at Seymour's
> > feet, we don't need to think, 'oh, there's a symbol'...we need to FEEL it
> > (like what Will was saying). Haven't you ever felt like someone was staring
> > at something about you for no reason? Or have you ever sat next to a person
> > who smells like fabric softener or nice perfume and it's so overwhelming and
> > delicious that you just want to turn to them and tell them they smell great
> > and ask what brand they use? Seymour is giving this woman an opportunity to
> > do that. No matter how many elevators I have been in, I always feel
> > awkward, and Seymour is breaking the awkwardness by being REAL and FRANK
> > regardless of societal codes. He gives the lady an outlet to say how she is
> > feeling, and she fails the test. Salinger isn't always about the
> > technicalities of speech or thought, but FEELING and PSYCHOLOGY too. Oh
> > phooey, I completely lost track of myself. I guess I drifted toward Will's
> > comment, which, by the way Will, was very inspirational, not to mention
> > extremely articulate and thoughtful. I'm out.
> >
> > -Micaela
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-bananafish@roughdraft.org
> > [mailto:owner-bananafish@roughdraft.org]On Behalf Of Jaime Stallard
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 8:02 PM
> > To: bananafish@roughdraft.org
> > Subject: Re: Reference to JDS by Paul Thomas Anderson
> >
> >
> > I completely agree with you - I can identify with Holden in ways that I
> > could never identify with Seymour or even Franny or Zooey. I love Holden and
> > I will always be partial to him. He'll always be my favorite.
> >
> > ----Jaime
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "L. Manning Vines" <lmanningvines@hotmail.com>
> > To: <bananafish@roughdraft.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 1:15 PM
> > Subject: RE: Reference to JDS by Paul Thomas Anderson
> >
> >
> > > Micaela said:
> > > << As wonderful as Catcher is, I feel that it is much less
> > > idiosyncratic than F&Z and 9 Stories. Holden is more of a general
> > character
> > > with "problems" that most people relate to (although none the less
> > brilliant
> > > for it). >>
> > >
> > > I may be alone with Scottie on this, but I think Catcher is all the MORE
> > > brilliant for it. Holden is a human we can all know; Franny, Zooey,
> > Seymour
> > > and company are freaks. I enjoy the Glass stories (well, not Hapworth)
> > very
> > > much, even Seymour: An Introduction. But I think that, perhaps with a few
> > > exceptions, they aren't comparable to Catcher.
> > >
> > > -robbie
> > > -
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> > >
> >
> > -
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> ----------------------
> LR Pearson, Arts 99
> lp9616@bristol.ac.uk
>
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