I don't know if Scottie's postion is theory driven or reflecting a lack of knowing English teachers worth loving. I was lucky to have a poet, Richard Hugo, teach me both the art of writing and the art of teaching. Richard Hugo was the Director of Creative Writing at the University of Montana and was a poet who risked sentimentality in ways paraallel to Salinger. Hugo may not be on everyon'e's list of beloved poets, but he was well known and widely appreciated during his lifetime. He was not only the editor of the Yale Younger Series for a while, guggenheim fellow, national book award nominee, etc, he was a kind man who gave me fatherhood and love at a time when I needed it the most. He wrote a book on teaching writing _The Triggering Town_ and if anyone is interested,contact me off list and I'll send you a xerox of an article I wrote on Hugo's pedagogy. And if you read any of Richard Hugo's poetry and can take my word on behalf of his masterful teaching insights, then you don't have to waste pixels on scottie's crusty playfullness and may get to the poetry of it instead. will