RE: however, this is a tragic situation

Waitaminute -- you're saying college professors attempts to "change culture"
are
"overt"? What the heck are you talking about? You mean the PC movement is
secret? What world are you living in? What about all those links you sent
me?
Jim

Typo, covert. C-O-V-E-R-T. I am not talking specifically about the PC
movement, where the hell did you get that, I am talking about the chosen
subject matter that is chosen over a whole plethora of other material that
for the most part relies on the same set of assumptions that are often
contrary what the tuition payer thinks he is paying for. i.e. Diversity.
Daniel

If you say that selecting syllabi for freshman writing classes that reflects
the
professor's biases and then having the professor grade down papers that
don't
reflect an "acceptable" point of view is manipulative and wrong, I agree
with
you.
Jim

Who is restricting this to freshmen?
Daniel

I don't know how often that happens, though. It never happened to me. I've
never done it to any student. The people I know that teach writing now at
my
University have their biases, and I talk to them about their students, but
the
students they get annoyed with are disruptive in class, not writing the
"wrong"
ideas.
Jim

How do you know it is not going on? That is part of the problem, I suspect
that there is no check, many have experienced just that, your experience
conflicts with mine, ok, but does not prudence dictate that it should be
investigated? By whom, the prof who may be guilty of the accused deed? No,
there needs to be a public check. And if anything, those links should turn
your critical minds on to yourselves. If there is a lack of diversity, be
it in a big city, shouldn't you be concerned Jim? Or are you going to get
defensive and ignore it?
Daniel

And even then, when you hear them talk about it, they're really entertained
by
the disruptive students...it's pretty funny, actually...
Jim

Here is where my "so what" gets inserted.
Daniel

I didn't say there was no faculty diversity, just that diversity isn't
defined
politically. I think you get to that below.
Jim

Obviously something is going on, I would think that thinking, intelligent
critics would naturally ask questions but that is just my thought, oh well.
Daniel

I don't know what the heck you're talking about. Really. Are you saying I
should be critical of the lack of political diversity? I don't know. It's
clearly illegal and immoral to refuse to hire someone on the basis of race,
religion, sex, etc. It's not clearly illegal to refuse to hire someone on
the
basis of political leanings. It may be immoral. But I don't even know how
hiring committees could even evaluate that. What are they going to do? Try
to
infer politics from the dissertation? You think they read all those
dissertations?

No, I am saying that if some one makes an accusation why is the criticism
directed at refuting the accusation only, the criticism should be directed
at the defenders as well, isn't that how a middle grounder should respond?
Daniel

> I think that singling any one out for any social reason is dangerous, is
> social justice academia's job?
This is stupid, Daniel. There are -laws- about refusing to hire people on
the
basis of race, religion, sex, etc.
Jim

Read more carefully, I agree that it is wrong to refuse to hire for those
reasons but it is just as wrong to hire for those reasons but those who do
hire for those reasons have no excuse based on their argument for diversity
to exclude politics. How does a law automatically make something less or
more dangerous?
Daniel

> If so then that is political and by making
> social based preferences you are already involved politically.
No, it's a response to the legal environment. "Politically" as it has been
used
in this discussion refers to a left/right political spectrum.
Jim

The legal environment is political, and all politics falls somewhere on the
spectrum, where the hell have you been Jim? You don't think that the social
preference laws are political?
Daniel

> Modern elite humanities academia eschews any kind of universal
> qualifications so those who hold the chairs decide what is taught. You
are
> right on this Jim but it has already happened 'unofficially'.
> Daniel

Yes, those who hold the chairs decide what is taught -- in the sense of
course
offerings. But then again, that's their job. Someone has to make that
decision, and it's not wrong to do. They don't design the courses
themselves,
or determine the course content.
Jim

I agree, but those choices will reflect that chair's world view, ok, just
make that well known. Many private schools do this, so it has and can be
done.
Daniel

What kind of "universal qualifications" do you have in mind? Most hiring
committees look at publications in the field, experience, people skills,
etc.
Jim

That is your job Jim, you propose, the public will criticize and a choice
will be made, all out in the sunshine.
Daniel

> I do not have a problem with
> left leaning academicians but I do have a problem with the denial of their
> leanings and classroom activities as well as University college policies.
What the heck are you talking about? Can you cite a single source about any
kind of "denial" of classroom activities and college policies across the US?
Jim

You don't think that this does not go on? Go back and read those links, do
a search. Open your eyes. Proffs claim that they do not influence their
class in either direction but the choice of class material is often enough
to show what nonsense this is Jim.
Daniel

> Ok, but which sets of these institutions set the agenda in the various
> humanities fields?
> Daniel
Each institution sets its own agenda.
Jim

So, the community colleges decide what is acceptable and transferable to big
state colleges?
Daniel

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Received on Tue Sep 30 12:06:17 2003